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What would cause this

Discussion in 'Vinyl' started by CanuckSigns, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    We had 2 jobs back in the middle of 2009 for translucent sign face replacements using the same colour, we installed using a (apparently) good quality 2 mil translucent cast vinyl that is rated for 7 years outdoor durability. a few weeks ago, I drove by the first sign and noticed it's EXTREMLY cracked on both faces (faces face east-west) so i drove by the other job and 1 of the faces is doing the same thing.

    I have contacted the vinyl supplier, they are looking into it, but i'm not holding my breath.

    Can anyone tell me what would cause this to happen, the lexan panels were brand new and the vinyl seemed to be "fresh" when we used it.
     

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  2. signpost-boston

    signpost-boston Active Member

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    did you apply any liquids when applying itonto the substrate? does the laminate match the vinyl?
     
  3. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    the sign was applied using rapid tac, no laminate as it was translucent cut vinyl, not a print
     
  4. weaselboogie

    weaselboogie Very Active Member

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    I had something similar with some white cast applied to a foyer. Three entrances, The ones that cracked like that got the morning and evening sun. The one that didn't was fine. The foyer was a glass enclosed foyer and it got pretty stifling hot during the summer.
     
  5. bois323

    bois323 Member

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    I had the same problem. Was told it was the hot sun. So the next time I did one I applied a 3.2 mil UV laminate. It's only been 3 weeks so I am not sure if that will make a difference yet.

    I too contacted the supplier but never got a clear rersponse. They told me it could be the sun or the adhesive or maybe contaminates on the lexan panel. So they didn't have a clue.
     
  6. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    It's possible the vinyl was on the shelf quite a while before you got it.
    Unfortunately the best you would get from the supplier is a new role of vinyl/
     
  7. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    i'm not looking to get anything from the supplier, it's been 3 years afterall, i'm just trying to find out why this happens so we can try to avoid it in the future.
     
  8. Wiggum PI

    Wiggum PI Member

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    Looks to be the same colour blue in both pics. If so its a straight up vinyl fail I think.
     
  9. petepaz

    petepaz Premium Subscriber

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    could have been a bad batch of vinyl and due to the weather it just failed
     
  10. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    yes it's the same colour of vinyl, we ordered it a few months apart, but it could have very well come off the same roll.

    it seems to be starting in the corners, if i put a slight radius on all the corners, will it help in this regard?
     
  11. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    Can you say what brand of translucent you used?
    3 years seems short for a cast vinyl's outdoor life even exposed to direct sun.

    On the other hand it could be another sign of ozone depletion & global warming........

    wayne k
    guam usa
     
  12. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    the vinyl was kpmf, it's a UK based company, we've never had an issue with it before.
     
  13. S'N'S

    S'N'S Active Member

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    It may be that being in the full sun the Lexan is expanding and contracting at a different rate to the vinyl.
     
  14. Red Ball

    Red Ball Active Member

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    I seem to remember a long thread about poly carbonite sheet needing to outgas for a period of time before applying vinyl.

    We have always allowed half a day or more for poly to sit after the covering has been removed before applying vinyl.
    Don't have any trouble.
     
  15. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

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    That vinyl was stretched when it was applied. After a period of time it is trying to pull back from that stretch. That is why it cracks in wide sweeps like that. Installer error.
     
  16. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    The vinyl could not possibly be stretched as you say, as it would have been put on with premask. premask in all my years of doing signs does not technically stretch... at least not to any degree that would cause this.

    I would say that it is vinyl failure and because it is translucent there is a good chance it sat on the shelf far to long. I have seen calendered vinyl last longer than that.

    send the pics to the mfg and tell them to make this right or word will spread.
     
  17. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    yes it was put on with premask, so i don't think it stretched at all.
    the part that annoys me most is that I didn't try to save a few bucks and use a crappy vinyl, I used the proper material for the job (at $20 a yard it better last!) and i still have to put out the money to replace it!
     
  18. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

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    7 year vinyl lasted 3 years yep thats about right! lol

    I hope they (like other compnaies) are not using lesser quality materials to save a few bucks and we the signguys get that short end of the deal
     
  19. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

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    Then you have never had this problem,, right,,,

    He did. And i have as well. I also discovered the cause long ago.

    Do I have to make a vid to show that stretching will occur even with transfer tape?
    Especially if improper technique is used,,, vinyl can be stretched so much that the the unsqueeged part will stand straight up. So, sorry, but premask will not prevent stretching.

    Look at those sheets. They all fail in the points of cuts. It is just like concrete where stress cracks always appear at a corner. Same with this vinyl. It is cracking at corners. All caused by shrinkage of some amount.

    Dated vinyl does not shrink just because it is old. Also, I have/had a load of vinyl that is at least 6 years old and all of it still applies just fine. Although i do not cut much of it any more.

    Those crack lines are caused by shrinking. He used calendared trans vinyl and/or,,, it was stretched when applied.
     
  20. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    +1 this

    never seen a cast vinyl do this, i've even applied vinyl over a decade-old to banners/lexan/everything and its never cracked like that...

    distinct tearing stemming from the corners of cuts.
    most definately calendared vinyl, you got there.
    mislabeled/mistaken product maybe?
     
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