What would YOU do with the money?

[qmr55]

Sounds like you are that kind of person who buys new model of iphone every year, if you know what i mean

Rest of us small business owners will be poor and keep using outdated tools and keep buying things out so we won't have another bill every month

Uhhh doesn't everyone upgrade phones regularly?

Like I said, if $30-50 to stay up to date on most current software hurts your business, then maybe you shouldn't be in business.

 

[HulkSmash]

The issue I have is not about being able to afford the subscription, it's about paying thousands and thousands of dollars over the years for software that you don't own, as soon as soon as you decide to stop paying, the software stops working, holding your proprietary files hostage with it, even after paying multiple times the purchase value of the software over the years.

You're looking at it completely wrong -

We pay 50$ a month for Adobe Cloud. 600 a year. How many hundreds of thousands go through that software?

Very small investment for the support and constant upgrades.

 

[deand_sai]

If you buy a software in 2005 for $3500 you will pay it off based on $50 subscription price in 5.8 years. I should be able to expect my software to last this long. Every year after that I am saving $600 on not having to pay subscription. If I make it nine years I have almost $2400 to spend on an upgrade which should be cheaper then $2400. My 2cents. If I make it last longer then I just keep saving. With subscription I am stuck paying every month no matter what.

That works great if you don't want new features, drivers or continued phone support. The point of the subscription option is you get on-going new features, drivers and phone support. For example, subscribers just got the new finishing tool that automatically adds grommet marks and bleeds to vinyl banners. And when you get a new computer, upgrade your OS, or buy new equipment, you're already covered with your software. Also, if you have a new employee that has a problem with the software, they can call and talk to an expert at SAi. It's about an on-going relationship that brings you improvements and on-going new value to your business.

If you just want to stick with the same software and hardware for nine years and don't ever need tech support, then obviously, subscription is not the way to go. It's a choice.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Then maybe you can explain to me why we have a rotary engraving machine that died last week with no way to fix it, unless we spend $6,000 to upgrade it. The system uses a ISA card and ISA hasn't been in computers for 15 years. Sure, there are specialty places that make motherboards with them in them, but the software won't run on Windows XP,7, or 8.

So essentially, we're dead in the water on that machine because the software is from 1998.

I did say there are exceptions, but overall, you can't run 95% of the software made 15 years ago on a system today. That's why "Compatibility Mode" entered into some of the OS's, and even now, they are abandoning them.

Try running old versions of Corel on Windows 8.

It's just the way it works.

I never said we run them on "new" computers, our edge runs on a old refurb unit we go for $100.

 

[qmr55]

The issue I have is not about being able to afford the subscription, it's about paying thousands and thousands of dollars over the years for software that you don't own, as soon as soon as you decide to stop paying, the software stops working, holding your proprietary files hostage with it, even after paying multiple times the purchase value of the software over the years.

So lets see, you are mad because you *MIGHT* stop using a software that you began using that you had knowledge it used a specific filetype? I don't think that is Flexi's problem. I think its yours.

Use Adobe if thats your problem, everything opens an EPS or AI file.

 

[HulkSmash]

For programs like Flexi, a subscription is useless. Not because of money, but more because they upgrade like 2 things every 17 years. Also their tech support takes like 5 months to return calls. This has been my experience....

Their rip literally lays about 60% too much ink, and is very unstable with very limited options. Only thing flexi has been good for is making cut lines.

 

[CES020]

I never said we run them on "new" computers, our edge runs on a old refurb unit we go for $100.

Gotcha, that was exactly my point. You can run almost anything on legacy machine with legacy software, but software gets obsolete when new technology comes out, that's just a fact of life, personal, and business.

My first smart phone doesn't work on 4G. That's just life in the technology world.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Gotcha, that was exactly my point. You can run almost anything on legacy machine with legacy software, but software gets obsolete when new technology comes out, that's just a fact of life, personal, and business.

My first smart phone doesn't work on 4G. That's just life in the technology world.

This is where virtualization comes in handy.

You're looking at it completely wrong -

We pay 50$ a month for Adobe Cloud. 600 a year. How many hundreds of thousands go through that software?

Very small investment for the support and constant upgrades.

You may run the full master suite for your business, I don't know. If you are at the Design Premium suite (or Design Standard like I would need for my workflow), in 7 generations (about 7 yrs considering that Adobe seemed to be on a yearly release with the last 3 (CS5, CS5.5, CS6)), you'll be paying more for the subscription service then getting the perpetual license and you'll still be ahead of the game if you continued to pay for every new upgrade from then on out. Bare in mind, this is also considering buying and upgrading every new release for the perpetual license. Those hundreds of thousands would actually have a little more value to you then the same hundreds of thousands going through the subscription.

Again, this does depend on what you actually need for your workflow. All the programs or just one program, it's hard to beat just going off of price.

 

[CES020]

This is where virtualization comes in handy.

True to a point, but as in our case, it's a legacy motherboard that's the issue, so the hardware/software combination is a one, two punch for that machine. Time to bite the bullet and get something current!

 

[HulkSmash]

This is where virtualization comes in handy.



You may run the full master suite for your business, I don't know. If you are at the Design Premium suite (or Design Standard like I would need for my workflow), in 7 generations (about 7 yrs considering that Adobe seemed to be on a yearly release with the last 3 (CS5, CS5.5, CS6)), you'll be paying more for the subscription service then getting the perpetual license and you'll still be ahead of the game if you continued to pay for every new upgrade from then on out. Bare in mind, this is also considering buying and upgrading every new release for the perpetual license. Those hundreds of thousands would actually have a little more value to you then the same hundreds of thousands going through the subscription.

Again, this does depend on what you actually need for your workflow. All the programs or just one program, it's hard to beat just going off of price.

Sorry, i'm not that guy nit picking at a couple hundred dollars a year. For us it makes sense. It's easy. Very Easy. That alone is worth it to us. I'll pay more money for an easier process. If im paying 600 dollars a year for the next 20 years im in business, and in that 20 years i do 30 million, And i'm down 12k for a subscription where all my works flows through..I'm Completely OK. Even if i'm doing 300k a year. 600 dollars is just too small to care about.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

Suz, with all due respect, you can't expect to buy software in 2005 and expect it to run in 2015. Computers and software don't work like that. Hardware changes and you end up with legacy products, which companies stop supporting. You can't use Power PC based software on Apple's on the latest version of Yosemite. Software goes obsolete, that's just the way it works. That's not to say there aren't exceptions, but overall, that's the rule.

So .. with software you probably only purchase every 2 or 3 years, can keep on your older equipment well after you buy a new system in case your newer stuff goes down and that you never get files from outside sources in the .fs format .... I think it's granted that unless you are constantly needing the best software to support the newest equipment or (like in the case of adobe) you get outside files in a format that is very version forward incompatible ... how does paying monthly make sense? I still have my flexi 7 and my old computer and plotter in the closet ... still works, still no payment on it and if I decide to need a second system to do what I do ... or my newer stuff suddenly goes down ... I can still access all my files and keep working. They already stated, once you install the newest software you can't go back unless you decide to go bulky multiple installs.

And oh look ... my flexi 10.5 will still work with newer equipment! probably by the time I need to upgrade again (2 or 3 years from now) I'll probably need ONYX rip and Illustrator/corel more than I need Flexi ... and when I get that software ... I can still access my old files.

 

[The Vector Doctor]

Kudos to Steph for being so professional in her replies. Be thankful that Flexi is giving you a choice. Adobe has not done so. They are sticking with the subscription model only and I don't see them ever reversing this. Its either stick with what you have, pay the fee or go elsewhere.

I was not happy when Adobe first announced this change a couple years ago. However, there have been a couple of new features they added to their software that easily saves me time (money) every month and it pays for itself. Plus I can always open any ai or eps file that is sent to me. Sure I would rather not pay monthly but the good outweighs the bad.

 

[ddarlak]

Sure I would rather not pay monthly but the good outweighs the bad

In the case of Adobe, sure I bet it's worth it - they are a huge company, but flexi..... no, there's one Russian guy there that knows up from down, but the rest of them don't know much....

 

[Fred Weiss]

Speaking for myself and not for Signs 101, I don't see a problem with a choice between subscriptions and hard copy licensing. If I were new in the business or if I thought I might like to add Flexi to my software lineup, a subscription would be a great way to see if it was the right product for me. If I decided it was worth it and wanted to switch to a hard copy, I could always do so later. If I figured after three months that I couldn't get enough value out of it, then I could also cancel the subscription and I've only spent $150 to find out Flexi wasn't for me.

Wouldn't it be great to have such a choice with your printers, cutters or laminators?

 

[Jackpine]

I will not even consider Flexi for anything now. I am buying the full Signlab outright for $750.

Done and done.

I just did that from Wensco. I own it.

 

[Suz]

Steph,

I must now apologize for my part in the "attack"... Didn't mean to personally attack you. I am up to my eyeballs in software hell right now. Crawling out, but it all started with taking XP computers off line back in March (?) and then recently getting some new equipment and doing making some other changes. Adobe has me extra frustrated right now and I sure hope other Software Companies will continue offering their buyer the option of a Subscription or a full purchase and not follow Adobe's poor example (my opinion).

Basically, the way that I feel is that Adobe stole my money. Why? They made my original software disks and serial numbers no longer usable. I don't trust what they provide on their website to replace it, and it fights with my Corel products and shuts them down. Nice. But that is another Company, not yours. This is the reason for my apology.

Thank you for taking the time to explain your position as a Representative, and your Company in more detail. I've spent almost an entire month of wasted time dealing with all of our computers, doing clean installs then software installs, uninstalls, and re-installs. We are finding all sorts of problems springing up with Adobe products I've paid for over many years. We have various Adobe products and other software products that run different machines. By themselves, the Adobe products I've invested in have been excellent until now, and they were completely paid for. Now I'm unable to use what I paid for, and those Adobe products are affecting my other software too. I understand software gets outdated. I do upgrade now and then, but not every year and I'll not upgrade for as long as I can do nice work with what I have already.

Hopefully your Flexi stays Flexible. Scares me when you say we "still" offer..... I hope that you always offer choices. That is the best business model.

Thanks!
--------------------------------------

No, the prints do not stop. Here's how it works:

If everything is running smoothly, Flexi and the subscription payment center communicate once every 30-31 days (depending on the month). If internet connection is cut at any point during that 30-31 days, nothing happens, meaning your Flexi will still run completely normally. If on day 32 Flexi still hasn't heard back from the payment center that the license can be renewed (because of a lack of internet connection or whatever), a grace period kicks in. Worst case scenario, if there is a natural disaster and your internet goes out the day your Flexi subscription is supposed to renew, you still have several days to connect online again before Flexi stops running.


Ultimately the cartoon is meant to show that there is a choice - traditional software or subscription - and our intent was to poke good-natured fun at our own traditional software. I won't deny that subscriptions is a good business model (why else would Adobe and many others do this exclusively), but SAi also created subscriptions in response to customer requests for an affordable option. For businesses that prefer to pay a capital expense, we still offer the traditional upgrade or full purchase. You have the choice to do either.

 

[deand_sai]

In the case of Adobe, sure I bet it's worth it - they are a huge company, but flexi..... no, there's one Russian guy there that knows up from down, but the rest of them don't know much....

David, you must be referring to one of our device driver engineers that is from Russia. Yes, he's pretty smart when it comes to the device drivers he makes. But the others on his team and in the Engineering department are very experienced as well. Each specializes in a specific area or areas of the product so may not appear to know everything. But they are all highly skilled. I've worked with other software companies in the sign industry and I'd put the Flexi Team right up there with the best of them.

 

[thinksigns]

One concern I have about the subscription option is what if 3-4 years from now they double the yearly subscription cost? If you want to open the files you created over that time you will be forced to pay it.

 

[CES020]

So .. with software you probably only purchase every 2 or 3 years, can keep on your older equipment well after you buy a new system in case your newer stuff goes down and that you never get files from outside sources in the .fs format .... I think it's granted that unless you are constantly needing the best software to support the newest equipment or (like in the case of adobe) you get outside files in a format that is very version forward incompatible ... how does paying monthly make sense? I still have my flexi 7 and my old computer and plotter in the closet ... still works, still no payment on it and if I decide to need a second system to do what I do ... or my newer stuff suddenly goes down ... I can still access all my files and keep working. They already stated, once you install the newest software you can't go back unless you decide to go bulky multiple installs.

And oh look ... my flexi 10.5 will still work with newer equipment! probably by the time I need to upgrade again (2 or 3 years from now) I'll probably need ONYX rip and Illustrator/corel more than I need Flexi ... and when I get that software ... I can still access my old files.

I'm not suggesting one model is better than the other. I think that's a call each business owner has to make on their own. All I'm saying is that over time, computers become obsolete. XP is not supported by the people that created it. I would think the same would be true for things like CS2. Things change. When Apple went from their PowerPC processors to Intel, it turned that whole world upside down. Things that worked on the PowerPC platform no longer worked on Intel based Mac's. It's just the way it is with technology. You have to pick the one that works for you and go that route, but you also have to know that if you decide to use legacy products that are 10 years old, then it's probably not going to be smooth sailing when you run into "issues" with hardware or interactions between other products.

 

[The Vector Doctor]

About 90% of the files I produce are saved down to version cs6 and lower, mostly version 8. That way if I ever quit subscribing to Adobe CC or Adobe Headquarters goes belly up, hit by a nuclear warhead or doubles their prices I can be assured that I can continue working by using older versions of the software that I own outright.