Why you should never second guess what you already know.................

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Weird -- it's been sitting in my car in 25 degree weather for the last week and it hasn't frozen?

Same here. My bottle of Splash had ice chunks floating in it this morning but the Rapid Tac II was not frozen in the least bit. I used it indoors today in a 70 degree shop to layer one decal over another and the thing I like about it is it doesn't slide around much or give you much time to adjust the graphic but when it sets it does set incredibly fast...much faster than any other product or solution I've tried and I'm willing to bet I've just about tried them all.

As far as using it in cold weather I used it in 20-25 degree weather a few weeks back with absolutely zero problems. However, that was the first and is as of yet the only time I've used it so far. I will be using it again in the next week or two but hopefully the weather will be over 32 degrees, at least.

Bullscat…… Horsepockey…… it’s all the same.
I’m not drinking this stuff, so I don’t care what % or proof it is. I’m going by the label and what the inventor said on his video, so I was under the impression it might work.

You were under the impression it might work? I can't understand the reason for immediately jumping to conclusions and making claims that this product is crap when you yourself say you made an assumption that it only "might" work.

The way I see it, I tried using it in 20-25 degree weather and it worked. That's fantastic as nothing else would have worked except possibly a dry application, that is if the vinyl will even release from the backing by the time you go to squeegee it on, which is doubtful. In that case, the heat gun is probably your only friend. Typically vinyl graphics shouldn't be installed under these conditions. Someone comes along and makes a product that makes it easier...not necessarily right...but easier and potentially less impossible to install them. That's fine and all, but you're still working in unfavorable conditions regardless of whether you have a some magic potion or not. Just because the magic potion didn't work for your crew doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just didn't work in these extreme conditions.

I think it's a good product but knowing what I know now, having tested it in cold conditions, I will still refrain from using it in below 32 degree weather. I guarantee the stuff will make my job easier when it's cold outside, but you can only expect so much. If I get a customer like this that insists on a deadline in cold weather, I will just pass the job up and let someone else deal with the headache. Some things just aren't worth it.

 

[Gino]

When Roger was here, he didn't have this product in his arsenal as far as I know. Possibly he did, but I didn't follow his pitch. He sent me a sample pack and frankly, I don't remember using it. If we did, maybe we used it and had no idea what it was. Little things like this just don't phase me. I never kept track of I vs II or cleaner this or remover that. His stuff was grossly overpriced and not all that good and this whole thing just reconfirmed it. Now you can put me down as saying 100% I won't ever use the sh!t again. He easily might have had it, but I never used the stuff back then or now. We do almost everything dry and we do have a solution we make, just like the stuff Fred makes and I know that wouldn't do the cold job that everyone else was saying tac II would do.

Anyway, I was merely saying I was second guessing myself and I shouldn't have done that.

Why is that so hard for you to follow or understand ?? Are you being funny or just not listening ??

 

[CES020]

You should call them. There's obviously something wrong with it. Maybe the vendor is filling them with water to make them go further? Call them and tell them about it. In all the years on this forum, this is the first time I've ever seen that, so it's worth a call to find out the problem. Don't just bash them, call them and find out the problem and report back.

When 100's of people have mentioned using it over the past few years and your install failed, that doesn't make it a crappy product. It means something went wrong for some reason. Either that, or you're right and the rest of us were just lucky.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

You should call them. There's obviously something wrong with it. Maybe the vendor is filling them with water to make them go further? Call them and tell them about it. In all the years on this forum, this is the first time I've ever seen that, so it's worth a call to find out the problem. Don't just bash them, call them and find out the problem and report back.

 

[gabagoo]

Gino, I feel your pain.... I know you said you second guessed yourself on the install, but I am wondering why you would feel that using a liquid application fluid would be better than doing it dry? Especially since you guys are dry experts and never do it wet.

If you do everything dry then that would be the way to go, especially in cold weather as dry has to be better than using any type of liquid in such harsh conditions. Doing it dry would have probably meant hitting it with a heat gun to remove premask and even that is risky as you could possibly crack the glass....


I always hold people off in cold weather until we get a break in temperature as I know that it spells failure to even attempt it. If they insist...I walk....

 

[Gino]

]Gino, I feel your pain.... I know you said you second guessed yourself on the install, but[/SIZE] I am wondering why you would feel that using a liquid application fluid would be better than doing it dry? Especially since you guys are dry experts and never do it wet.

If you do everything dry then that would be the way to go, especially in cold weather as dry has to be better than using any type of liquid in such harsh conditions. Doing it dry would have probably meant hitting it with a heat gun to remove premask and even that is risky as you could possibly crack the glass....


I always hold people off in cold weather until we get a break in temperature as I know that it spells failure to even attempt it. If they insist...I walk....

There are two maroon panels that go down first. Each one is 14.5" x 96". Usually, under normal conditions, we'd do it dry, but we thought with all the talk of this tacII stuff making things go so much better, we'd try it. Trying to get a 15" x 95" piece down with no bubbles ain't easy.... for anyone..... dry or wet.

We are not dry experts, but we do a lot of it. We've messed them up already in the middle of summer doing it dry, but not often. We just guessed wrong and this one came back to bite me.

I didn't even discuss charges with this company, but after all of these great reviews as to our doing it wrong, maybe I'll reconsider talking to her about it. What this job is paying and how much this company gives us a year.... I could re-letter this window 15 times and still make money.

Here's a picture of it of what it will look like when it's finished, just not as blurry.

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[gabagoo]

Can I ask you or anyone else here...after seeing the pic I want to know how if they were applied reverse you would deal with the liquid that gets caught between layers?

Thats another nightmare scenario.

 

[Gino]

If we do it in reverse from inside, we won't use any liquid. Anyway, not tac II, that's for danged sure.

If one was to do it wet, cause we did like 25 or so years ago when we didn't know any better, you'd do the lettering, and then wipe it down good and dry and clean any smudges and stuff away. Wet the next layer lightly and then squeegee the livin' dickens out of it so no wetness remains back there.

The wet method isn't really all that bad, it's just a mess and takes extra time. Some products work and some don't...... It does tend to make beginners feel more confident when positioning, but once you know what you're doing, I don't think many people stay with the wet methods.

 

[signrios]

this customer…. and don’t get confused and think I’m stereotyping all Latinos

good, for a moment you reminded me of that a-hole "incognito" guy from a while back lol!
that *******!!!

 

[signage]

Gino I got the same sample kit that you did and it did have Rapid Tac II in it. I took it outside around 4:00pm and just brought it in and it is not frozen (Temp here was 17 deg and is now 14). So I would contact them and findout why what you have has frozen!

 

[300mphGraphics]

Cast 3M beige.

For an outside application, why not simply color match a digital print on an air release vinyl?

 

[Techman]

Just to see what I could see. After doing more than a few installs in the land of the midnight sun where the cold winds blow and not having any challenges...

I was just outside spraying some window glass with RTII. I wanted to see if glass with cold temp on both sides would make a difference. . The temp is 15f and no wind. The glass had a light frost on one side. It is 9:40 PM

Weather.com for 49548 shows 15 degrees where my shop is located.

Sprayed the glass with several different amounts. Starting with a light mist far away to a heavy coat directly on the glass.

Results?.. Overall, the Rapid TAc II solution was running down the glass melting the frost as it went all the way to the bottom. I think this stuff would work good as a window defroster. I think I will try it in the morning. After all. It is snowing tonight.

Conclusion? If those installers gave a good report then someone watered down that new bottle of Rapid Tac.

 

[Mike Paul]

I've used RT-2 a few times and it worked well. Maybe you received a bad batch? If I had to install at that temperature to meet a deadline I'd do it dry with an air egress digital print. If they needed a Metallic Gold or Sign Gold type vinyl I'd layer on top dry.
Anyhow, I'm a little curious on the freezing so I just put a small cup of Rapid Tac 2 out on the deck for the night, it will be 7 degrees throughout the night, I expect an ice pop or maybe a thick slushy in the morning at that temperature but I'll post back with the results...

 

[zeeman66]

maybe the problem is that you could use some basic vinyl application lessons first and foremost

 

[Mike Paul]

Never froze completely, it's just like a slushy.

 

[CES020]

Funny, we all had the same idea. Here's my test this morning. It snowed last night, it's 18 degrees when I took this, this morning.

Wiped the snow off, used the sample bottle which atomizes really fine, and lightly sprayed it on. Nothing happened. Sprayed some more on, nothing happened, other than it ran down the glass. Wiped it off. No issues.

Someone watered that batch down, I'd guess.

 

[BobM]

I use Rapid Tac II specifically on jobs that have to be installed, outside, on the coldest days. Never had it freeze, although I did have a problem the first time I used it as I only washed the glass once (with Rapid tac II) before application. Since then I wash the glass two times, apply the vinyl, spray a few drops on the transfer paper, wait a few minutes and then strip the paper off. Many of those days I went inside to warm my hands between steps.

I use Rapid Tac II to clean every substrate before application as well as Rapid Remove to clean up glue residue. My experiance has always been good.

 

[DizzyMarkus]

I am thinking even tho it appears to not freeze, I will wait for a warmer day to do my store front windows -10 to -20 windchill here:

At this temp other "things" freeze :0)

http://www.9wsyr.com/weather/conten...isory-Until-11-am/Wq02xjXyS0e-UxDWH9WCEQ.cspx


Markus

 

[Techman]

When someone refills a mostly used sample bottle of RTII with water of course it will freeze. That bottle of converted weasel p!ss that freezes on contact s a great reason to go home and get out of the cold.

 

[Gino]

Ya know..... if you wouldn't make sh!t up and confuse the masses, you'd lend some credibility to yourself.

I'll tell ya one more time. It was a brand new bottle. A quart bottle. Never opened. I doubt very highly it was tampered with at the factory or Feller's. It was inside until we drove to the place and the vehicle had heat in it. It froze. End of Story. Finito.

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