Legal advice, somebody ripped off my design.

[StopSignGraphics]

Hey 101er's,

Haven't been around much lately, I've been really busy with work and haven't had much time for fun stuff.

A few months ago I was approached by a church wanting to wrap a couple of buses. I gave them a quote but the design fee was a sticking point with the project proceeding. After some debate I decided to roll the design time into the total cost for the wrap (btw this isn't something I normally do and probably will never do again) just to get the project moving.

The church agreed to the quote and I started the design process. I met with the church elders and finalized the design a couple of weeks later. I got the green light to start and asked for their deposit. I was told "no problem we will have the deposit for you". A few days later I get a call from the church, the treasurer has some concerns about how the money was allocated for the buses and if they can legally use the funds for wrapping the buses. They only have enough money to wrap one bus.

I was giving them a discount for wrapping both buses at the same time, I offered to wrap the first bus at full price and give them the discounted price on the second bus when they had the funds. The church's representative said he understood my position and thought that was fair but he would have to discuss it with the church's elders. A few days later, I get another phone call, they've decided it makes more sense to wrap both buses at the same time and they are going to have a fund raiser to appropriate the necessary funds. They are going to hold off on the deposit until they can pay the full amount.

A few days ago, I receive an email from the church stating that they did not raise the necessary funds to complete the project but a member of the church has donated both wraps to the church through his business. They thank me for my time and patience, etc... I respond professionally (but at this point I'm pretty PO'ed).

Today, I happen to be driving by the church, they've used my designs for the wrap. What's worse is that it's a really bad copy of my designs. I made it perfectly clear that the design work that I did was to be used only by me for wrapping their buses.

I'm debating if should try and approach the church or just call my attorney.

It just pisses me off.

 

[royster13]

Do you think you can really "win"......Sure you can take them to court and get a legal victory, however, it will be short lived as it will be all over town what you did.....Sorry there is no happy ending for this situation.....

 

[speedmedia]

hmmm Imagine that screwed by a church...

After the last several go arounds with churches and the shady people that run them I choose to refer them to my competitors.

Did you have anything on your drawings that states it couldn't be reproduced? I don't really think you need it typically if you design it it is your property. I would certainly maybe get in contact with someone and threaten if the design fee of $XXX.XX isn't paid you will pursue legal action. Anytime I have done this in the past I haven't need to pursue.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[Flame]

Send em a bill for design work first and see what happens.... don't gouge, just the amount for your time.

 

[James Chrimes]

Not to knock churches, but that does not make it ok. Hope you have saved all of your e-mails which can be used as evidence. I think I would be ugly as well. If someone want's to have someone else do the job so be it, but to take the design and have it reproduced without permission to save a few bucks. Just not right.

 

[Rydaddy]

I can see the steam coming out of your head now... I have had it happen before. Wish I could tell you that it ended well... I think you will have to spend more than it's worth to get anywhere... Doesn't help that you would be taking a church to small claim's court... they will be given the benefit of the doubt.

That sucks.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

There's no question as to whether or not you should charge them for the design or even how much. They already knew the price as it was a point of contention for them. They chose to use your design, bill them for the amount you original quoted before you agreed to roll it into the wrap cost.

No ifs, ands or buts about it BILL THEM... it's what Jesus would do.

Be sure to note on their bill the terms and legal action taken on unpaid bills. Don't make it personal! Have it appear as though this would be on any bill with an outstanding balance.

Follow up with a phone call if you have not received a their payment by the stated date. Again, be very matter of fact in your phone call... if they act as though they didn't realize they were not free to use the design... say, "i'm sure you were unaware, otherwise that would be theft and i know you wouldn't have intentionally stolen my work. I'd be happy to give you an addition week to pay if that helps."

You're not SOL.... DON'T YOU DARE LET THEM OFF THE HOOK!!!!

i'm keeping my eye on this thread... i'll be seriously disappointing if you don't follow through with a billing on this!

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Wait... What??? Did I read correctly that you started the design prior to getting the deposit? If so, there's both your problem and your answer. You willingly worked for free and basically gave them the design. You may have a legal leg to stand on if your proofs or whatever showed the artwork had an appropriate "do not reproduce this or I will sue you" disclaimer but even then it's a gray area and in all reality not worth fighting... Hopefully a lesson learned.

We've all been there.

 

[jscarl]

hmmm Imagine that screwed by a church...



Thanks,
Kurt

Seams like every time i talk work with one, the screwdriver comes out of the tool box. Or all the deacons and outstanding members would like a nice big discount for voting for my work. Lawyers are next and then relaters.

 

[speedmedia]

Seams like every time i talk work with one, the screwdriver comes out of the tool box. Or all the deacons and outstanding members would like a nice big discount for voting for my work. Lawyers are next and then relaters.

I'll give that an AMEN!

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[Techman]

Do you think you can really "win"......Sure you can take them to court and get a legal victory, however, it will be short lived as it will be all over town what you did.....Sorry there is no happy ending for this situation.....

Why should any one worry about what a CROOK says about anyone? Why should any one worry about what anyone says about them? If we worry about what someone would say about us when we are living right then we are paralyzed. People always talk.

It's not a matter of who wins. Its a matter of someone stealing from a designer. This group stole his design time. No doubt about it.

Its good that they would spread it all over town. Good. When their version gets around the other side will get around too. Every one else will quickly know its not good to rip off a designer.

I watched this very thing happen before. The judge made the bad guy pay. It didn't take long before the whole business community knew about it and never again did any one rip off a designer.

I would send them a bill. No matter what. When they dispute it I would tell them straight up they stole the time it took to come up with that design and I want to get paid for it. Of course the other guy can do ti cheaper. He didn't have any time into it other than to scan it and print it. I would tell them that too.

I wouldn't let this go by without a fight. No way no how. I do not comprehend why any one would fear what someone else would say about this. There are too many people around that want to do business that will counter those few bad talkers.

 

[signage]

Did you have a disclaimer on the design, what about a water mark?

The person/business that did the wrap is also an other avenue to go after, they should have know better to copy someone else's artwork!

 

[Pat Whatley]

Gonna depend on the artwork. How "custom" was the artwork? If it was just a background with a picture of the church and some lettering there aren't a whole lot of ways to deal with that so the "copy" may not be an actual copy.

I'd personally find out who actually did the wraps then bill the other shop via certified mail for the design time.

 

[anotherdog]

Next time you print banner, use up the waste to print a lot of little banners that say that this church and it's elders stole from you.
Let them either sue you or pay you off.
These churches live and die by reputation...Thou shalt not steal. Maybe if you make it clear to them that they STOLE rather than "borrowed" a neat idea.

 

[Marlene]

did you have teh artwork clearly marked? did it have on it what was to be expected if they took it without your OK? did you have them sign off on anything that clearly stated that you owned the design? just saying it doesn't matter, it has to be in print and it should be signed. when showing artwork to a customer, make sure you have written on the print your info on ownership of the design and what you expect them to pay for it if they should take it, then make them sign it under the part that states that they have read and agreed to the terms. if you did any of that, send them the signed copy with your bill.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

Since winning will gain nothing ... send a bill as a donation ...write if off

 

[TresL]

Bill them & if you don't get your artwork payed for, you could use it for taxes.
Donation to a church...

Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[thesignguy1986]

In my opinion I try to stay away from the big churches cause they always want it for free or try to screw you in the end. The town I live in had many big churches and like 10-12 small private ones and I've learned working with the small private ones always is more rewarding and you never really haev to worry about looking bad in front of a church that hald the population goes to.

Now on I'd definatlly watermark and have them sign anything you design stating it's your design until paid for.

 

[dwt]

Threaten to file suit against all parties involved and to publish the progress in the local paper via op-ed articles.

 

[bob]

Why should it matter if it's some church or a squad of Gypsies?

Bill them for whatever you think they owe you.

Don't call, don't plead, don't do anything but file in your local small claims court. Not only file but pay whatever fee to get the local sheriff's department to serve whatever papers need serving. Consider it an investment, you get it all back.

If they offer to settle don't accept anything less than exactly what you're asking for plus any and all filing and service fees paid to date.

When you go to court familiarize yourself with the Berne Convention of 1989 and print and bring with you a copy of same. It's readily available from any number of web sites.

Also bring a screen shot or two showing both your purloined design with the file name and an Explorer window showing the creation and last modification date of that file on the same screen. Show that this pre-dates the appearance of the actual wrap.

Submit these things as evidence and tell your story as simply and in as uncomplicated a way as possible.

You will prevail. You will get a judgment against them. If they refuse to pay up, do whatever is necessary in your village to file a lien and once again get the sheriff's department to serve it on whatever property they possess.