My new Logo/Company name

[player]

Maybe the key is if the designer is a conventional artist, not just a bit twiddler.

If he/she can produce killer art with a pencil and a paper, and has studied typography (lots of people can draw very well but because they don't know fonts and the art behind them their commercial graphics suck), they can shift to a digital canvas and excel.

 

[Biker Scout]

Wrong! not a Corel user.

I'd love to see a wireframe of some of those. I really like some of those blends.

(Yeah total troll... that's what I do on here. Stir the pot and NEVER offer helpful advice )

 

[Biker Scout]

Biker you are really stepping in it, just like when you suggested a heavy thick laminate on long term banners that needed to be stored between events.

HAHA! I don't remember that being a "thing" that had people up in arms. Was just a suggestion. Or maybe I was being facetious that day?

I think Player has it right... hand a guy a paint brush and he doesn't know what end to hold, but hand him a mouse and suddenly he's a Digital Rembrant. Different strokes catch people in different ways. Me, I like colors, all of them. And symmetry and patterns I'm drawn to as well. Also, I happen to know a guy who is an amazing artist and illustrator (traditional not commercial) but flat out refuses to buy a mac for many different reasons, cost being the main one that sticks in his craw. But he has figured out how to perform his craft using Painter. Then there's this other guy who makes really interesting works of digital art using only photoshop. But the guy can't layout a business card to save his life. Even if he has one to copy off of.

 

[Warlick Designs]

I've had this theory/observation for years, and it's something I know I CAN say out loud: Folks that are too focused on what tools other's use, then form some sort of ridiculous conclusion based on the tool set rather than the final product, cannot see the forest for the trees.

Exactly....

 

[Warlick Designs]

Who can honestly look at a sign, or a billboard or any kind of display presence and pretty much know what program they used? Certain design traits are sooo prevalent amongst certain types of designers, and that's partially because of the truncated tools they are working with. Even how the programs handle colors is sometimes obvious.

But the good designers are the ones where you can't make out those subtle (and sometimes obvious) distinctions. And they have been mentioned.

But let's refer back to the OP's three logo examples... I would eat my hat if he said he made them in Illustrator. Impossible. Those have Corel written all over them.

Oh and Dan... you also revealed another trait that just begs to add fuel to this raging inferno... you were using a Mac. Even if it is Freehand or whatever, things are just smoother, more fluid, color representation is accurate, anti-aliasing is king, post script printer language... they were made for pre-press production and desktop publishing. Period. You can't buy a Dell and expect to use it to be a designer right out of the box. They need way too much tweaking, from color calibration to graphics cards.

Does it really matter what I used for the first attempt??

I use both COREL and Illustrator..

 

[Biker Scout]

Because the tool you reach for is often very telling.

 

[Gino]

To me..... I don't see or understand what it matters which program one uses to achieve an end result. The end result is all that matters. Whether a program takes 7 clicks or 12 clicks to get there doesn't really have any bearing on if something looks good or not..... it's the way one puts all the elements together and can work with his tools.

I mean, you have someone that can hand-carve in wood or HDU. Perhaps it looks fantastic. If someone else uses a CNC machine and it looks the same, then is one way better than the other ??

At our shop, we have several programs and we use them for different applications. Some get used more than others and some do things the others can't do. The magic comes in, when you know how to use your software, quoting software, color wheel, balance, and so on. The best software is not gonna make up for anyone's shortcomings, other than maybe perfectly made ugly designs/signs.

s101 has many talented people and some.... not so much. I'd say the 'not so much' crowd far outweighs the talented folks. What doesn't make sense is the jealousy for the few who can do and the rotten thumbs up people give the lousy ones. I can't figure out why so many are to afraid to tell someone how bad something really is.

Seems some here want every single facet of someone else to be 110% perfect...... then b!tch and complain about nonsense, but when it comes to their own abilities, they turn a blind eye. How's this considered helpful ??

The sad part is.... the really talented people here, don't even post up their work. They have no need to. They have nothing to prove, nothing to gain and nothing to lose. They are happy from within and need no pats on the back or comments from the peanut gallery. Sure, occasionally something comes through and you wanna show off, but that's rare when you have a true artist among ya needing to post something every coupla days. Look at me.... look at me...... I'm good and this proves it. Constructive analogies from start to finish, before and afters or something unique....... that's different.

Now....... the arguments over which platform is better is the most ridiculous one I've heard to this day.
​

 

[Joe Diaz]

So what you're saying is if someone is posting work regularly they are really saying "look at me! look at me!"? What about those who post comments 9 times a day on average? Aren't they also saying "look at me! look at me!"? I guess maybe folks shouldn't contribute here. I'm sure they would hate for people to get the wrong impression. I for one kind of enjoy seeing what people are working on, regardless of their "skill level". I spend less time on here than I used to because people don't post the stuff they are working on as much anymore. They do it on facebook now, free from a lot of the unnecessary "snark".

 

[SignManiac]

Uh oh...I think I just developed a complex. I'm guilty of posting a lot of stuff, but I'm also guilty of trying to teach others about good sign design. That has been my personal crusade for the past thirty years and hopefully I have encouraged others by my examples. Anyway, I don't care. I'll keep sharing my knowledge.

Back to the issue of tools, they are just that. The best tools in the world will not compensate for someone's lack of skill, talent, fundamentals, or anything else for that matter. I also enjoy looking at everyone elses work. In my own mind I visualize what I would have changed to make it better or see someone else's style that I admire.

 

[Gino]

So what you're saying is if someone is posting work regularly they are really saying "look at me! look at me!"? What about those who post 9 times a day on average? Aren't they also saying "look at me! look at me!"? I guess maybe folks shouldn't contribute here. I'm sure they would hate for people to get the wrong impression. I for one kind of enjoy seeing what people are working on, regardless of their "skill level". I spend less time on here than I used to because people don't post the stuff they are working on as much anymore. They do it on facebook now, free from a lot of the unnecessary "snark".

Nope, I didn't say that at all, but if that's how you perceive it, then I guess you're right, again, huh ??

As you put it, if one has a weak stomach, then I would suggest not to post.

I too enjoy seeing projects, signs, works of art and other things in progress as well as finished products, but some of this stuff that has to be handled with sugar coating and make-believe enthusiasm is just sickening regardless of the level.

If you're afraid to post because of something I said recently or in the past some 11,482 times, please don't be. It's a free world and we're all here to learn. However, it's just a little beneath even someone like you to be b!tching about something you know is true, no matter how you want to put a different spin on it and make it out to be something different then I first had intended.

If ya like facebook, do it til the cows come home, Joe. Why tell me about something as frivolous as this ?? Some sideways attempt of some sort ??

 

[Joe Diaz]

The sad part is.... the really talented people here, don't even post up their work. They have no need to. They have nothing to prove, nothing to gain and nothing to lose. They are happy from within and need no pats on the back or comments from the peanut gallery. Sure, occasionally something comes through and you wanna show off, but that's rare when you have a true artist among ya needing to post something every coupla days. Look at me.... look at me...... I'm good and this proves it. Constructive analogies from start to finish, before and afters or something unique....... that's different.

​

This comment makes it sound as though you believe that people that post their sign projects or designs often do so because they have something to "prove" and are looking for "pats on the back" from the "peanut gallery". They are saying "look at me... look at me..." "I'm good and this proves it" So if that's not what you meant please explain. because that is what it sounded like. am I wrong people?

I like it when people post work. The more the better. I only brought up Facebook, because that is where people that used to post things on forums like this, do it now. I've got my theories on that, but my point is rather than giving people a hard time for choosing to participate, perhaps we should encourage it more. You may call that "sugar coating" I call it not being an a$$ every chance you get. You don't need to walk on egg shells but it is possible to be helpful without being downright nasty to people and scaring them away from ever posting their work again. I don't know about you but I enjoy seeing people help other people out, not tearing them down and making them feel bad about not being the perfect sign maker or designer. I'm just being honest here. That is the atmosphere you get elsewhere. It's positive, it's personal, it's helpful. Here, lately? Not so much. So do we change or would you rather see it get worst. You are the main guy here what should we do?

 

[Gino]

This comment makes it sound as though you believe that people that post their sign projects or designs often do so because they have something to "prove" and are looking for "pats on the back" from the "peanut gallery". They are saying "look at me... look at me..." "I'm good and this proves it" So if that's not what you meant please explain. because that is what it sounded like. am I wrong people?

I like it when people post work. The more the better. I only brought up Facebook, because that is where people that used to post things on forums like this, do it now. I've got my theories on that, but my point is rather than giving people a hard time for choosing to participate, perhaps we should encourage it more. You may call that "sugar coating" I call it not being an a$$ every chance you get. You don't need to walk on egg shells but it is possible to be helpful without being downright nasty to people and scaring them away from ever posting their work again. I don't know about you but I enjoy seeing people help other people out, not tearing them down and making them feel bad about not being the perfect sign maker or designer. I'm just being honest here. That is the atmosphere you get elsewhere. It's positive, it's personal, it's helpful. Here, lately? Not so much. So do we change or would you rather see it get worst. You are the main guy here what should we do?

It might sound any number of ways to any number of people, so if the shoe fits.... wear it.

I think I'm saying this for the third time.... I like it when people post, also. You have too many thoughts going on here, just spoiling for a fight, so let's just say, you are not reading what I wrote in the proper context I wrote it. In fact, I have three PM's now that agree with me wholeheartedly and none to the contrary. I didn't write this to discuss my sentence form or definition of words, but to just read it as intended.

I don't care if people are on facebook, that's none of my concern..... remember, it's a free world and we're all free to read here, somewhere else or not at all.

As for my terms of sugar-coating, pat me on the back, look at me and the other ones..... they are what I see and what I am talking about. Again.... for anyone reading, listening or pondering..... if the shoe fits, wear it...... don't limp.

Yes, we're all walking on egg shells and it's because of the many here and around the world who condemn people for speaking the truth or at least conveying what's on their mind and then being chastised for it.

Why this need for everything to always be in a nice & kind manner ?? If a question is asked once or twice you, me or anyone can be kind and gentle, but when the same question is asked 36 times and no one can connect the dots, why not stop beating around the bush and get right to the point. At least with my method, it's understood, it might be in harsh tones, but the message gets across. Using your tactics, it's usually just passed over and not recognized as being useful. Again, that's my take on it. I've seen my way work countless times and I've seen your ways fail more times than I can count. To further this along, this is just not in sign critiquing or layout design.... this is in anything you or anybody else does. Let's dumb this down real far. If you're in a parking lot and every space is taken and you see someone pull out in the next aisle over, do you try to get there quickly before someone beats you to it ?? If someone gips in front of you, do you just smile and say have a nice day ?? If they give you the finger, do you just wave back at them ?? Okay, so it happened once. All of a sudden there goes another car out and you do this all over again and don't get the space. It happens 6 more times. How happy are your feet now ?? Feel like getting out and doing a dance ?? All I'm saying is, after a while one begins to know when to jump to it or just treat it like the 36th time it's happened. You know the drill, the routine, you got their number and nothing is gonna change, no matter how sweet and smiling you are.

I would suggest you to stop trying to create something here that doesn't exist. You took offense to what I said, so I musta hit home or something, cause you're taking this like a man wouldn't.

 

[Joe Diaz]

I would suggest you to stop trying to create something here that doesn't exist. You took offense to what I said, so I musta hit home or something, cause you're taking this like a man wouldn't.

No offense taken at all. Why would I be offended by your comments? I don't post my work here every couple days so I know you weren't speaking to me directly. I probably post a design or two a month anymore. Some times a little more sometimes less depending on the month. Not that I really need to explain to you or anyone else why I choose to post. I do it because I enjoy the critiques. An extra set of eyes has paid off in the past. I'm assuming others post for similar reasons.... but you see people are mostly nice to me when they critique my work. What is bothersome is when folks are completely rude and more-or-less downright mean to someone else for doing the same thing I have done. So why the hostility to them, and not to others? And it's not just me that feels this way.

But anyway, if you look back at what I wrote, you would see that I carefully structured the majority of my comment in the form of a question, because I was unsure of whether you really meant that people who often post work on here are just simply showboating or not. I still am unsure because now you appear to be arguing that. Do you really think that? If you think they are doing it just for pats on the back, what do you suggest anyone does about? stop posting their work? Is that what you would like? Why bring it up? And if you feel this way, do you also feel the top posters are showboating? Sure they aren't posting projects they are or have been working on, but they are posting their thoughts. So IF you are saying that, then based on your opinion, not mine, wouldn't those people also be saying "look at me, look at me"? again based on YOUR opinion IF you truly feel that way. Now keep in mind before you respond, you are the number one poster here averaging 9 posts a day!

I personally don't think that all of the folks who participate on here often are doing so just to get attention. There are so many other reasons people may choose to post their work, or designs, or whatever.... But you??? what were you really saying?

And please don't take offense to my QUESTION. If you (not me) do feel that your posting 9 times a day on average is simply your way of getting attention... again based on your opinion that people who post often are also doing so just for attention, then don't get mad... because if you do then you "musta hit home or something, cause you're taking this like a man wouldn't." And IF you do get mad please don't go running to my mom like last time. :Big Laugh That is definitely not very manly.

 

[Marlene]

geez, once again we get a newbie with a crappy layout and we turn on each other like a pack of rabid badgers. it's a wonder that anyone bothers with this site any more.

 

[Joe Diaz]

You know I was thinking. I know, watch out! right? I'm curious though. This comment struck my as being pretty funny:

The sad part is.... the really talented people here, don't even post up their work. They have no need to. They have nothing to prove, nothing to gain and nothing to lose. They are happy from within and need no pats on the back or comments from the peanut gallery.

These really talented people that do NOT post their work here... How do you know they are really talented? If they don't post their work how have you seen it to know if they are talented? Do they display it somewhere else? Did you see it in a trade magazine? So if they displayed their work somewhere else then based on what you said are they only doing so simply for attention elsewhere? Or would it be for attention only if it were on signs101?

:Big Laugh

 

[ColoPrinthead]

Joe, I'm sure Gino saw your latest design post and how you used the forum's opinions to make the one small improvement that it really needed; I wouldn't call that "Hey look what I can do!" more of "What can I do better after being immersed alone in my own creative process?". I don't think you should get so defensive about Gino's vague posts when more often than not they are not directed at someone who possess your skill level.

I enjoy seeing everyone's work - even more so when a design develops through the input of the community and I get to watch it progress.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Joe, I'm sure Gino saw your latest design post and how you used the forum's opinions to make the one small improvement that it really needed; I wouldn't call that "Hey look what I can do!" more of "What can I do better after being immersed alone in my own creative process?". I don't think you should get so defensive about Gino's vague posts when more often than not they are not directed at someone who possess your skill level.

I enjoy seeing everyone's work - even more so when a design develops through the input of the community and I get to watch it progress.

I appreciate it. I'm not trying to be defensive. I know he's not talking about me, but it doesn't change the fact that I disagree that other's who participate often are only doing so for attention, and you cannot go around assuming everyone is and treating them like garbage if you don't really know their true motives for coming here. Why assume the worst. Perhaps Gino is the one who is being insecure here. People who post their work are really putting themselves out there and opening themselves up to a lot of heat on this forum.

Don't get me wrong a little heat isn't bad. I'm not being anti tough-love here. But it's one thing to speak the truth with a hint of harshness, but it's something entirely different to assume that the only reason people come here are for the attention.

 

[Gino]

No offense taken at all. Why would I be offended by your comments? I don't post my work here every couple days so I know you weren't speaking to me directly. I probably post a design or two a month anymore. Some times a little more sometimes less depending on the month. Not that I really need to explain to you or anyone else why I choose to post. I do it because I enjoy the critiques. An extra set of eyes has paid off in the past. I'm assuming others post for similar reasons.... but you see people are mostly nice to me when they critique my work. What is bothersome is when folks are completely rude and more-or-less downright mean to someone else for doing the same thing I have done. So why the hostility to them, and not to others? And it's not just me that feels this way.

But anyway, if you look back at what I wrote, you would see that I carefully structured the majority of my comment in the form of a question, because I was unsure of whether you really meant that people who often post work on here are just simply showboating or not. I still am unsure because now you appear to be arguing that. Do you really think that? If you think they are doing it just for pats on the back, what do you suggest anyone does about? stop posting their work? Is that what you would like? Why bring it up? And if you feel this way, do you also feel the top posters are showboating? Sure they aren't posting projects they are or have been working on, but they are posting their thoughts. So IF you are saying that, then based on your opinion, not mine, wouldn't those people also be saying "look at me, look at me"? again based on YOUR opinion IF you truly feel that way. Now keep in mind before you respond, you are the number one poster here averaging 9 posts a day!

I personally don't think that all of the folks who participate on here often are doing so just to get attention. There are so many other reasons people may choose to post their work, or designs, or whatever.... But you??? what were you really saying?

And please don't take offense to my QUESTION. If you (not me) do feel that your posting 9 times a day on average is simply your way of getting attention... again based on your opinion that people who post often are also doing so just for attention, then don't get mad... because if you do then you "musta hit home or something, cause you're taking this like a man wouldn't." And IF you do get mad please don't go running to my mom like last time. :Big Laugh That is definitely not very manly.

Your first paragraph.

Whether or not it's how I see the artwork being displayed, you see it or most anyone else on this site.... some of these layouts/designs lately have been downright horrid. I am not speaking of your work. Yours are very nice and pleasing to the eye in most cases. Do they have flaws, yes, but so minute, it goes almost unnoticed by the majority or especially an untrained eye. It's the wannabees that make it frustrating for the masses here. They all get on the same line of attack and just hand the poster his butt on a dinner plate. Is it necessary ?? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Maybe, but for reason. For me, it has a lot to do with the presentation. You as well as anyone else here knows I'm not very tactful, but then I don't hide my true feelings for 99% of the time. You know what you're getting with me. Others hide their crude/rude and condescending answers/remarks in niceness. Again, I don't believe in sugar-coating or making a failing mark into a passing mark just to spare someone's feelings. If it stinks, they need to know. If it's repairable, they need guidance, if it needs some minor tweaking, then add to it.
People are nice to you because you aren't asking the same inane foolish questions. Your stuff all has character, substance, thought, theory and experience behind. It might need a final touch here or there, but for the most part, you already know that. You're an inspiration to others here, so your stuff gives them a goal. However, it is sad when they say, I can/could never do that, because in fact.... they can, they just don't invest in themselves. They want the quick fix and if they can't do it immediately, they just go back to the scribbling of unkerned fonts and lousy google art. They are the ones to whom I am referring.

Paragraph two.

Honestly, I can't follow it because I guess I just can't read that much back & forthness. Trying to get through it though, so you don't accuse me of bailing on your essay, I would say a top poster vs. someone who posts up nothing... ARE nothing alike. The poster posting up nonsense is a drain for the most part.... IF they don't take the constructive criticism regardless of the delivery and work on it. Remember, you don't shoot the messenger. One needs to sift through some of the callous words or snarky remarks, pick themselves up and get back to work or just roll over and get outta the way. As for someone posting 9 times a day, 10 times or 19 times a day..... what has that got to do with what is being discussed ?? If it's all worthless gibberish, then yes, I agree with you and we have many of those around here. That's just for the sake of hearing themselves talk or read it in black & white on a computer screen. Cyber muscles are very prominent since the coming of forums, facebook and other social media. However, if someone is being helpful, then I don't think 2 times or 20 times or even 50 times a day is too much, if they are helping, despite the delivery. As for my number of posts, suffice it to say, I guess I just blow a lot more smoke than you..... and don't forget all those 'welcome from PA's.....................

As for taking offense to your question, it lacks any substance, how could I ever take offense to it ??

Paragraph 3

Now here is where you go completely off track. That was something supposedly private between two or three members.... behind the scenes. There were no fouls, no harm, but you two got bent outta shape over a reaching out. My bad for thinking a last ditch effort might work. Bringing it up must mean something has struck a nerve. For that I apologize. Joe, I wish you no harm and only continued success in your design works and will probably read about you in some trade magazine someday as being a world renown graphic artist. Til then, let's just agree we're here to help and my method is different from yours.

 

[Z SIGNS]

 

[Gino]

I have so much work to push through, I ain't got nottin' better to do..................