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Bought a plotter, software, and vinyl. Wondering where to start?
- Thread starter JKADesigns
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rusticsignmaker
New Member
Wow
Gees the guy was just trying to get some info and some of you just sound like a bunch of 5th graders.
Gees the guy was just trying to get some info and some of you just sound like a bunch of 5th graders.
JKADesigns
New Member
Lmao at some of the responses here, I expected as much after spending the whole weekend reading on this website. I didn't buy the plotter/computer as much as I bought the 20 boxes of 3M 220 vinyl that, when I'm all done, SHOULD be down to 12-15 well packed boxes of vinyl less all the boxes the vinyl came in and all the rolls that are basically ten rolls of scrap making a full roll. I have also done woodworking and general handyman type work, and will be working out of my home, so very low overhead costs. I wouldn't have paid $2000 for the machine, I know the machine/computer is worth around $600 combined.
Anyway, I just thought I would ask for direction here- would you start with the county fair booth, beating the pavement with business cards and brochures going door-to-door, flea markets, or where would you start selling, if it's none of the above? Remember, I'm doing this out of my home, and don't want or need people "coming to me". My wife and I have already discussed doing the wall lettering, and she'd like to do that.
I'm talking about $25/sf, as in, a 6x6 logo would sell for $6.25 each retail. I know very well that 12" high letters would be much less, as in, I quoted a guy with a demo car $50 for all 4 numbers on his race car. So, please bear with me, I do realize where you're coming from that I can't get $25/sf, it's all in the details. I'm not decorating a mirror with Victorian scroll-work that took me an hour to weed for $20!
Speaking of buying vinyl scrap- I may be interested in buying full boxes of pieces bigger than 1ft by 1ft, if there's anyone that wants to sell, at some point. Not now, but in the future. The Panther is a friction wheel machine, and that's another reason why this package was a good deal for me.
Again- WHERE would you start selling vinyl? I see bad signs all the time, so I will probably end up going door-to-door and selling some free signs if they include my name/number with the sign to get more business.
Anyway, I just thought I would ask for direction here- would you start with the county fair booth, beating the pavement with business cards and brochures going door-to-door, flea markets, or where would you start selling, if it's none of the above? Remember, I'm doing this out of my home, and don't want or need people "coming to me". My wife and I have already discussed doing the wall lettering, and she'd like to do that.
I'm talking about $25/sf, as in, a 6x6 logo would sell for $6.25 each retail. I know very well that 12" high letters would be much less, as in, I quoted a guy with a demo car $50 for all 4 numbers on his race car. So, please bear with me, I do realize where you're coming from that I can't get $25/sf, it's all in the details. I'm not decorating a mirror with Victorian scroll-work that took me an hour to weed for $20!
Speaking of buying vinyl scrap- I may be interested in buying full boxes of pieces bigger than 1ft by 1ft, if there's anyone that wants to sell, at some point. Not now, but in the future. The Panther is a friction wheel machine, and that's another reason why this package was a good deal for me.
Again- WHERE would you start selling vinyl? I see bad signs all the time, so I will probably end up going door-to-door and selling some free signs if they include my name/number with the sign to get more business.
JKADesigns
New Member
That's the obvious. 
I've already given a couple free banners away to family who had special occasions in the last week, all they were were wording on a background, basically getting my feet wet as to how to run the equipment. I will be getting a new car soon so that will be the top priority for it, redo the whole thing in vinyl.
Have noticed a bunch of small business signs in the area that can use updating, so that's kind of where I'm thinking about starting. Thanks for a honest and helpful reply!
I've already given a couple free banners away to family who had special occasions in the last week, all they were were wording on a background, basically getting my feet wet as to how to run the equipment. I will be getting a new car soon so that will be the top priority for it, redo the whole thing in vinyl. Have noticed a bunch of small business signs in the area that can use updating, so that's kind of where I'm thinking about starting. Thanks for a honest and helpful reply!
OhioSignShop
New Member
I'd dump all that expired vinyl in the trash can before you sell something and it falls off before you get down the road. If you want to make $500 a month starting out, charge $250 a job.
iSign
New Member
...telling you to get a job at a sign shop was an honest helpful reply too... even if you didn't recognize it as such...
...here's more help... it might sound rude because I'm going to tell you to forget almost all your ideas... but I'm not being rude... the honest truth is you should forget most of your ideas...
selling a 6x6 logo for $6.25? ...bad idea
soccer moms? bad idea...
swap meet? bad idea...
going door-to-door? ...bad idea (well, maybe not, but polish your sales pitch first, and create some sales tools)
"selling" free signs if they include my name? ...bad idea
getting a car & redoing the "whole thing" in vinyl? ...bad idea
notice Sardocs said "a nice clean colour-coordinated job"?
Let's start there... got a business plan?
got a company name? got a logo?
let's see you work those items out, and then when you buy one, post pics of the car & get some feedback on your plans before you letter it.
Techman
New Member
You can start being successful by first removing all socialist thoughts and actions from your work. Yes, you are a capitalist and any oen giving stuff away for FREE or doing it CHEAP is a socialist mentality. Only blue collar workers look for cheaper place to get their products. Capitalists think about profit. If it cannot be done with a good profit then it is a waste of time.
So there ya have it. No more socialist thoughts. And get a good course in economics and running a business with profit. An engineering assistant training will not get you there in any way shape or form.
So there ya have it. No more socialist thoughts. And get a good course in economics and running a business with profit. An engineering assistant training will not get you there in any way shape or form.
James Burke
Being a grandpa is more fun than working
A good business always starts with the customer first, and asks "What does my customer need"?
The Calvin stickers crowd and the soccer moms only buy out of want. And when their personal budgets are squeezed hard enough, that market dries up faster than Calvin's pee.
I would suggest that you focus your business model on items that are less novelty related and are more useful...where people are willing (or should be) to pay what it's worth. Again, take a look around and see what people need.
You have the cart, and you have the horse. You just need to get them in the right order. And, as the others have stated, you need to understand how to effectively make the two work together, hence the advice to get experience in a sign shop.
So...have you ever driven a horse cart? In other words, do you have effective business skills that will guide you though the challenges you will face ahead? Technical skills alone will only get you so far before you suddenly find out something more is needed. Trust me, I started out that way and it's a very rough road to navigate. A good business plan will keep you on track, and should help prevent you from chasing wild ideas that only lead to dead ends and wasted money.
If you haven't done a competitive analysis already, do one ASAP. I would suggest you start with eBay. Run some numbers based on what your competitors are listing their items for and see if it's anywhere what you need to survive. Even more importantly, closely observe what actually sells and how often. Most of that stuff rarely, if ever sells.
Last piece of advice...persistence and tough skin. You won't only need it here, but also in the business world. You've chosen to enter the most competitive segment of the market, especially with the Cricut cutters being so widely available. You've already spent the money so give it a whirl. It's a free country, we're free to make mistakes, and equally free to correct them. God knows all of us here have.
Jim
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mark galoob
New Member
Well...good luck with your 1400 dollars worth of 8 yr old scrap vinyl. I truly hope that works for you. Least it sounds like u have ca hones.
Mark galoob
Mark galoob
CheapVehicleWrap
New Member
Pardon my ignorance, but just how does one go about selling free signs?
JKADesigns
New Member
The vinyl has been collected for several years, as far as I know most of it isn't more than 3 or 4 years old. How long is vinyl good for? If it's stored in climate controlled environment I would think it wouldn't be too bad.
I have read throughout these forums and several members seem to report good luck with "loss leaders". I know better than to waste all my time making free signs- but when I know a local lady who's trying to rent out her building on a prominent corner in town, I don't see why not put my logo and services on the building in exchange for putting a "FOR RENT" sign up for her. We would both benefit.
To Jim- That's the kind of replies I'm looking for, however, I'm not sure how to go about analyzing the local market. I know that I won't find my competition on eBay- it will be the local sign shops. I don't see any reason to try to compete with somebody selling cut vinyl magnetic signs online for $10.00.
The way I see it, I can get into a lot of different things- including home wall art, vehicle signage, business signage, clip art, framed vinyl art, etc.
My original question is basically, what would be the best market for me to focus on, from YOUR experience? Thank you!
I have read throughout these forums and several members seem to report good luck with "loss leaders". I know better than to waste all my time making free signs- but when I know a local lady who's trying to rent out her building on a prominent corner in town, I don't see why not put my logo and services on the building in exchange for putting a "FOR RENT" sign up for her. We would both benefit.
To Jim- That's the kind of replies I'm looking for, however, I'm not sure how to go about analyzing the local market. I know that I won't find my competition on eBay- it will be the local sign shops. I don't see any reason to try to compete with somebody selling cut vinyl magnetic signs online for $10.00.
The way I see it, I can get into a lot of different things- including home wall art, vehicle signage, business signage, clip art, framed vinyl art, etc.
My original question is basically, what would be the best market for me to focus on, from YOUR experience? Thank you!
40ounce
New Member
Start here!
first thing you should do is put ALL the sign equipment you bought,
in a closet, and don't touch it until you go and BUY a copy of
Mike Stevens Mastering Layout book, read it about 3 times, like really read it,
wait a month or two, read it again a couple of times, then do free signs for a while,
like the kind you give to your family and friends for gifts and stuff.
please don't charge people their hard earned money on signs that are poorly designed,
and made with inferior materials
or take away from a sign company who knows what they are doing.
When I apprenticed under 2 amazing talented, old-school sign painters, they warned me that people like you will ruin the sign business.
"The vinyl has been collected for several years, as far as I know most of it isn't more than 3 or 4 years old. How long is vinyl good for? If it's stored in climate controlled environment I would think it wouldn't be too bad."
you don't even have any idea what you are selling.
please stop now.
first thing you should do is put ALL the sign equipment you bought,
in a closet, and don't touch it until you go and BUY a copy of
Mike Stevens Mastering Layout book, read it about 3 times, like really read it,
wait a month or two, read it again a couple of times, then do free signs for a while,
like the kind you give to your family and friends for gifts and stuff.
please don't charge people their hard earned money on signs that are poorly designed,
and made with inferior materials
or take away from a sign company who knows what they are doing.
When I apprenticed under 2 amazing talented, old-school sign painters, they warned me that people like you will ruin the sign business.
"The vinyl has been collected for several years, as far as I know most of it isn't more than 3 or 4 years old. How long is vinyl good for? If it's stored in climate controlled environment I would think it wouldn't be too bad."
you don't even have any idea what you are selling.
please stop now.
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MikePro
New Member
1) ever been to a hardware store? "For Rent" signs sell for $5. Not even worth your time. stick to being an "Artist", and get paid properly for your creativeness.
2) freebies might get you a drink at the bar, but that's about the extent of a sign guys' benefit from helping people that try to get everything for free. sorry to say.
3) putting your name on a piece of garbage only advertises it as YOUR GARBAGE. You'll never earn a decent rep. for being the "For Lease" sign guy.
4) vinyl lasts a good long time... the adhesive, however, does not. its like finding a Starburst that's been under your car seat for 5 years. Still looks clean and new, but hard as a rock and cracks like drywall. 2years is a good number to cycle your vinyl rolls, maybe push it to 4 if you can manage to keep them from drying out, but after that... you've got colorful garbage.
5) the best market to focus on? sign spinning is hot these days:ROFLMAO:
seriously though, wall mural lettering/graphics is always nice. people pay good money for true artwork. just make sure you don't jump through hoops, just to entertain someone kicking tires.
CES020
New Member
Joe, a couple of things here. First and foremost, if you give signs away for free, it tells people that the value of a sign is little or nothing, so in the future, you will have no pricing power with anyone you're giving free signs to. It also takes work away from someone else that does do signs for free. You run around town and give free signs to everyone and somewhere out there, there's someone trying to make a living making signs, who's now lost all his paying sign work.
You mentioned your overhead is low. What difference does that make? I'll tell you what it implies and what others are picking up in your words. It implies that you are going to do things really cheap because you don't have any overhead and you didn't pay much for your materials and equipment. The problem is that you should be charging what the market will pay, not what you want to charge because you have no overhead. If a sign has a perceived market value of $100 and you're charging people $35 for it, then you're destroying the market.
You are destroying it because you have no overhead. However, if you get flooded with work because of your low prices and you are forced to grow into a space outside of your home, you'll have to pay rent, utilities and wages just like others. So you're $35 for a $100 sign is going to put you in the poor house. If you call your now established clients that love your $35 signs and tell them that you need to raise the prices to $90 to cover your expenses, they'll drop you so fast it's not funny. Then, you'll have a new space, with a lease, and bills to pay, and no work.
You need to learn to price from day one. You price for the market, not for what you have in it. If I have a drop from a job that works for another sign, should I not charge the new client for the material for the sign?
Let's say the material is $200 for a 4'x8' sheet. That's $6.25 per sq. ft. cost. So the cost to the customer should be at least $12.50 per. sq.ft. Now, let's say I have a 4' x 4' drop left over from a job and it needs vinyl lettering. If the vinyl lettering price is $200, should I just charge them $200 and then give them the material because it was paid for from another job? Or should my price be $400, $200 for the vinyl and $200 for the substrate?
You don't give things away. You charge the market value. Not YOUR perceived value, but the MARKET perceived value.
If you don't get your pricing straight from the beginning, you won't have to worry about making $500 a month. The first time you get a job that has 3 colors in it and you don't have any of them (yes, believe it or not, people do actually want signs made from colors you don't have in stock), you'll have to buy 3 rolls of material. There goes your profit.
I'm not suggesting you not give it a whirl, but I would suggest you take another look at your approach. I think you're making some pretty large mistakes in your direction.
Just my 2 cents.
You mentioned your overhead is low. What difference does that make? I'll tell you what it implies and what others are picking up in your words. It implies that you are going to do things really cheap because you don't have any overhead and you didn't pay much for your materials and equipment. The problem is that you should be charging what the market will pay, not what you want to charge because you have no overhead. If a sign has a perceived market value of $100 and you're charging people $35 for it, then you're destroying the market.
You are destroying it because you have no overhead. However, if you get flooded with work because of your low prices and you are forced to grow into a space outside of your home, you'll have to pay rent, utilities and wages just like others. So you're $35 for a $100 sign is going to put you in the poor house. If you call your now established clients that love your $35 signs and tell them that you need to raise the prices to $90 to cover your expenses, they'll drop you so fast it's not funny. Then, you'll have a new space, with a lease, and bills to pay, and no work.
You need to learn to price from day one. You price for the market, not for what you have in it. If I have a drop from a job that works for another sign, should I not charge the new client for the material for the sign?
Let's say the material is $200 for a 4'x8' sheet. That's $6.25 per sq. ft. cost. So the cost to the customer should be at least $12.50 per. sq.ft. Now, let's say I have a 4' x 4' drop left over from a job and it needs vinyl lettering. If the vinyl lettering price is $200, should I just charge them $200 and then give them the material because it was paid for from another job? Or should my price be $400, $200 for the vinyl and $200 for the substrate?
You don't give things away. You charge the market value. Not YOUR perceived value, but the MARKET perceived value.
If you don't get your pricing straight from the beginning, you won't have to worry about making $500 a month. The first time you get a job that has 3 colors in it and you don't have any of them (yes, believe it or not, people do actually want signs made from colors you don't have in stock), you'll have to buy 3 rolls of material. There goes your profit.
I'm not suggesting you not give it a whirl, but I would suggest you take another look at your approach. I think you're making some pretty large mistakes in your direction.
Just my 2 cents.
TheSnowman
New Member
So then you can get more work like that...
HulkSmash
New Member
:Welcome:
We can't really tell you what's your best market. We're not from your area. Even though some of the things people have said on this thread might be offensive, or straight to the point - but it's still solid advice. Before you hop into something trying to make $500 a month on cut vinyl, work for someone? Get some experience? You're getting into a market where cut vinyl is almost obsolete. It still has it's place, but more and more people want printed graphics, not solid colors.
We can't really tell you what's your best market. We're not from your area. Even though some of the things people have said on this thread might be offensive, or straight to the point - but it's still solid advice. Before you hop into something trying to make $500 a month on cut vinyl, work for someone? Get some experience? You're getting into a market where cut vinyl is almost obsolete. It still has it's place, but more and more people want printed graphics, not solid colors.
CheapVehicleWrap
New Member
hmmm
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