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designing new business cards

Joe Diaz

New Member
I want to give you some advice that was given to me somewhere down the road. I'm going to put it in my own words, and I apologize in advance if it is lengthy, but I think it's important. I'm hoping some of it will register, but if not, maybe someone else will learn from what has happened on this thread. It seems like the design pointers aren't registering with you, so this won't be a design or layout pointer, but it will help you be a better designer.

Posting your work on this site is one of the best things you can do, but it is just one step in a series of many that I think you and everyone else should take. There are a lot of extremely talented designers, just itching to show off their knowledge in the area of design. You would be best to take advantage of this fact. I do. So do many others.

Most of the greats have gotten to where they are today, because they listened and learned from what others around them had to teach. And it isn't just tips, critiques and advice from those that you think are better designers than you, you can learn from anyone's critiques or advice... because at the end of the day you aren't just selling your designs to other designers, you are selling them to the whole world. The difference is the designer can articulate why you shouldn't do this and should do that.

I'm extremely lucky because I have 3 very skilled set of eyes that I work along side everyday. Most of the work I do has to pass their "quality control" and when a design gets shot down, I learn from that.

We are sooo fortunate this day and age because we have forums like this to use. If you don't have people close by who can tell you you're making a mistake, you can seek out advice here. But it doesn't do any good if you don't listen to it.

You are at a point that I remember well. You can choose whether you want to kick and scream all the way up until you eventually hit the extent of your own abilities, the farthest you can go on only the skills you can actually teach yourself, Or you can learn from what others are very willing to teach you. You can be constantly seeking out new knowledge and new ways to improve, and the limit at how good you can potentially become will never exist.

So you have to decide, do you know better than everyone else? or can you learn from everyone else? If you make the right decision, the possibilities will be endless.
 

lil Details

New Member
yeah, fine... I suggested you make up something else, even just for a training opportunity. Don't then, whatever...

next?




you're welcome...... QUITTER!

we'll all think about how much time we wasted offering free advice to a quitter, so we don't make the same mistake twice!

alrightythen, I simply meant that I am done with trying to do any sort of card design. I would really like to know what I am missing over the length of this thread.

Other than liking a certain style to a business name that you all don't like either of, I am not sure what I have missed. Font choices? I said that they all seem to be so much alike to me. I said I must be blind. I have not had a chance to get Mike Stevens book yet. I did read the "first pages" on Amazon, but that only takes one so far.

If you feel you wasted time....sorry!
 

buffalo.chuckl

New Member
Lil, no need to get butt hurt over everybody's criticism over your business card design. In the end, it's going to be what YOU decide is best for your company. It doesn't matter what we all think . What do we know? We're all design professionals here trying to offer a little helping hand right? So, don't take it personally. They're all trying to be helpful. :) If you feel that your design will attract business in your market. So be it. End of story. Ciao!

BTW, you guys all crack me up. It's useless trying to help someone that clearly is not ready to accept constructive criticism to help them grow in their craft. You are all awesome. Don't waste your time on this one. Help someone who really WANTS the help. You guys are too talented to waste your time on this. I think I'm repeating myself. Again, wasted time and effort here. Haha.
 

iSign

New Member
alrightythen, I simply meant that I am done with trying to do any sort of card design. I would really like to know what I am missing over the length of this thread.
you're done when WE say you're done!! NOW drop & give me twenty thumbnail sketches!! :rock-n-roll:

OK, Buffalo, and myself might both be right, and any further flogging of this dead horse is a waste... but for the record, what you are missing is this:

if you design a second card, with a whopping 15 minutes of your precious time, and get some feedback, and then design a third, get some more feedback, listen to it, try it out (maybe with a fake name, for practice dammit... so you're not so damned crippled by your own lil attachments) and post a third, then a fourth...

we've been watching this happen for years and years... and if you keep coming back and changing designs based on the suggestions, YOU are the designer, but you are trying OTHER designers ideas that you might never have thought of...

...and then YOU end up being the guy who finally drew something that everyone here says WOW too...

...and so what if you used other peoples design ideas... where do you think we got them? There are no new ideas (I don't totally believe that... but it's said quite often, and it's close enough to the truth to allow us to feel good borrowing each others ideas!)

Two of the best signs I ever made were from layouts I showed off on here or another site & the feedback I got pushed me to try alternatives, getting more feedback, pushing me to try again... and in the end, I take legitimate responsibility & credit for the execution of the ideas, as well as my own creative contribution to the idea, even if I used a few ideas someone else gave me to get there... that is how we build up our own resource banks of style, concepts, skills & approaches... by watching, listening, AND practicing!!!

Show us some damn practicing of the ideas we gave you & more will follow... roll over & say "I'm done" without trying, and the flow of ideas from signs101 to lil details will most likely dry up like a beached starfish!
 

lil Details

New Member
what I have come to think today is that no matter what I put up with my business name on it you are not going to like it....If that makes me an outcast to signs101 then I hate it.

I thought I had been working off of what was said. Dropped weird colors and wrong shadows and outlined shadows. Changed fonts, lessened number of fonts, changed layout a couple of times. Even did a layout along the lines of Flame's post. It has seemed that I am unable to grasp what you have been telling me....

I had all this and that wrong, THOUGHT I had changed most of it. You, iSign tell me that I am being a waste of your time and call me a quitter. Then I say that I am done and you tell me not too.....

I seriously am not getting it....

I don't want to play the "new name game" as I have stated. I feel like I have hit a brick wall....wanna see it?
 

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Vinylman

New Member
HOLY COW lil details, DON'T GIVE UP man.

These folks are only trying to HELP YOU HERE.

you are doing fine EXCEPT, you are NOT listening to the advise, and you ARE taking it all to personal.

The folks here {myself included} can sometimes get a little aggressive. This is do to the fact that you seem to want to improve. And that is VERY GOOD. And the folks trying to help you pride themselves in being Damn Good at what they do. They want you to excel at what you have set your sights on doing, BUT that will require you to do your homework. But it may take some time. You don't expect your son to be riding a Harley chopper on his second birthday, so slow down and enjoy the wonderful teaching and mentoring that you have been given so far.

NOW as for this last effort. SCRAP IT TO.

REALLY Dude, take a step back from this being "YOUR" business card with "YOUR" company name on it and give it a critical look.

The card is illegible. Colors clashing background graphic is way to prominent. Your name {white w/ red outline} gets LOST in all the other clutter.

You need to simplify the entire process.

BUT DON'T GIVE UP!:wine-smi:
 

lil Details

New Member
The last card was a joke....the brick was for certain...just been playing with the cards and was talking to my wife....said it was like a brick wall and pulled up that image to place on the card.

Don't worry, I don't think I am that crazy that I think that is a good image design...
 

briankb

Premium Subscriber
The last card was a joke....

Don't worry, I don't think I am that crazy that I think that is a good image design...



you thought something just as bad was good. have you really changed that much since the first message on this post?

I have a tag line for your business: "It's the Lil' Details that Make the Difference"

oh and stop using crappy fonts. go buy a $30 font CD at Office Supermax or try a few font websites like

http://www.1001freefonts.com
http://www.urbanfonts.com
 

lil Details

New Member
[/b]

you thought something just as bad was good. have you really changed that much since the first message on this post?

I have a tag line for your business: "It's the Lil' Details that Make the Difference"

oh and stop using crappy fonts. go buy a $30 font CD at Office Supermax or try a few font websites like

http://www.1001freefonts.com
http://www.urbanfonts.com

I DID NOT think that the brick was any good....


OK...on FONTS? What makes for a good font verses a bad font?
 

iSign

New Member
...You, iSign tell me that I am being a waste of your time and call me a quitter. Then I say that I am done and you tell me not too.....

hold on a minute there... let's get this straight... YOU said you were done first... THEN I said "quitter"

...and I went on to "invest" more time in you anyway, telling you what I meant, and why I said that...

..and for the third time, I'll tell you I don't give a ratsa$$ if you change your name, but trying to help you with design will help you with your future in the sign biz, no matter what you call yourself... and I suggested you keep on trying to do better... you have time to post a "joke" card, but no time to take the advice and try again to work up a nice layout?

I said "we'll all think about how much time we wasted offering free advice to a quitter" That's not saying I wasted my time... that's saying IF you don't bother working on improving yourself & your work, from the information shared here... THEN yes, it would have been a waste of everyone's time, right?

If you want to submit joke cards, make a joke name, but with genuine effort at making it look good, using the principals discussed...

By the way, at least 2 or 3 people said to you, that you should read this thread again. I wonder if you have bothered to do that? I know i wouldn't bother to do that on your thread, but I'd be damn sure to do it on a thread where my designs were being critiqued. It WILL make you understand the comments better, and it WILL improve the work you grow into..

and by the way, cranking out 20 thumbnails isn't an unrealistic suggestion... the first 5 or 10 will be from your own standard thought process & current preconceived notions... after that you will have to stretch a bit... that is when you might explore some really unique & original territory.

Many of the long time members of this site have seen new guys come in & get there work critiqued... and then we've seen them struggle... and then we've seen them grow, change & become excellent designers right before our eyes... and those same long time members have also been pushed & have grown leaps and bounds ourselves. I know I have, and i genuinely want the same for you..THAT is the only reason I am posting on your threads. I saw that smile on the banner you posted, and I saw the resilience through which you have generally maintained a good attitude amidst all the challenges...

If I'm buggin' you, let me know & I'll bow out... otherwise, come on, try again... and again... and try 3 card layouts at once even... that's what a lot of us do for clients every day.. when you see a second possibility while designing, make a copy, and try both ideas, and when you are inclined to try another variation... make a third copy... if the 2nd or third are so much better than the first 1 or 2... go back, and fix them to become worthy of showing, while maintaining the diversity between 2 or 3 layouts, so you offer the client (or the wolfpack here) some choices.
 

lil Details

New Member
couple more

I know the one is basically the "rock" one, but that is what I was working on when I put the rock on it....
 

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briankb

Premium Subscriber
Image A: why change the font on the address line and then make the outline white? it doesn't look right.

Image B: use a non-fancy font on the telephone number. you want everyone to be able to read your contact information in particular telephone and website url.

I don't think your design "mindset" has changed at all since your original message. you've improved a bit on choosing backgrounds and contrast but still choosing overall layouts and typography that is bad.

Try this: Using ONLY a plain white background with black text and a single font (Arial will do for now). Place all of the text you wish to have on the card. using only text (no colors, fills, backgrounds, nothing. Just black text on white background. tweak the layout of the text until it is exactly what you like and using the size of the text only to convey what is the most important information.

post this basic card up and let the designers help you perfect the layout then suggest a few fonts to give the basic card it's first "upgrade".

Doing this you will hopefully recognize two things. 1st is that you don't need a bunch of color or fancy crap to make a decent looking card. 2nd is layout and font usage are very important to making a good looking design.
 

lil Details

New Member
so....here is black text, Arial font, and the information layout with what I feel makes the phone number most important and the business name second or equal.


edit: changed pic to a proper business card size...
 

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lil Details

New Member
if you notice I am doing my best to give up on the old font and style for lil Details....I still say and so does my wife that it really FITS me, but here we go....
 

Pat Whatley

New Member
Look, these last two cards are not great but they're not horrendous either. They are light years ahead of where you started! Seriously, you're not going to work this out in a week but keep playing with it, keep improving it, keep learning from it and it will only get better.

Kudos to you for taking the bashing you've taken and sticking with it. You're gonna get it all figured out.


By the way, are you laying these out on a 2" x 3.5" scale? They look a little taller than they should be. Nothing stinks more than finally nailing a layout and realizing too late that you'd set it all up on the wrong size.
 

briankb

Premium Subscriber
Questions: What program are you using to make the card design? I ask because it looks like you are compressing the font which is making it look odd. I mocked up your card in Illustrator with Arial to confirm my suspicion.

As far as content is the address needed? I would put an email address and website url instead of the rt number. As far as I know you can't use online mapping programs to find a rt number so it doesn't serve any purpose. leave the city,state though that shows you are local or nearby.

do you have a website or email? if you don't want to give your real one, I would not. use blah@blahdetails.com and www.blahdetails.com for the purposes of mocking it up on the card.

almost forgot. instead of using a dash try a round bullet. In windows hold the alt key and on your number keypad type 0149. so while holding the alt key down type 0149. if that doesn't work open the Character Map program located in the Accessories / System Tools menu on WinXP and above.

standard business card size is 3.5" wide by 2" tall or (3.75x2.25 with bleed)
 
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