Hey Betsy from 3M!

[Flame]

I bet ya I wouldn't lose the job to 3M son!

What would you win the job with? Price? How would you compete with the very company making the vinyl? They would be cutting out TWO middlemen (supplier and printer), so they technically could undercut you so bad you'd never have a chance.

Is this what they're going to do? Not sure, but the potential for this ****ing up the market is pretty undeniable. I do not believe manufacturers of vinyl should have their hands in any printing/installation jobs. Many large companies in other markets take a whack at cornering the market, and it always pisses off their customers.

 

[Bill43mx]

Hi people! Not ignoring anyone. I want to be sure I reply properly without adding to the problem. Please let me get back to you on this topic shortly - today!

Betsy

And 2 days later still no reply.

 

[BALLPARK]

Not sure why there are some negative comments towards our members here on the site. Everyone is going to have different thoughts on the matter...

3M is the one that have ruffled some of the members feathers, not Merritt. I too have used them and will continue to do so, even if they still support a company like 3M.

My issue with 3M is what they can do to the market.

1) 3M is a supplier! They are not supposed to be taking sales away from anyone in our industry. By doing this with the wraps, it makes you wonder what they will do next. Will they continue to look for multi - million dollar profit contracts with large franchises? Why would anyone think they would pass up another larger market segment that hurts sign companies?

2) Local Wrap Projects - I think 3M will introduce plenty of media and kiosk into the showrooms of dealerships across the land. It depends on the pricing plans they have available, but they could either help or hurt you depending upon the price within your own areas.

3) Fleet Graphics - 3M has the marketing budget to let every potential fleet account know they can now get their wraps directly from the manufacture of several major brands. The manufacturing brands available for these options will only grow, if done properly. That will in turn increase the price savings to the fleet accounts and make it even harder to compete, unless they stay greedy. lol...

...

I do not think that 3M purchased this company to help 3M certified Scotchprint companies increase their profits. Nor do I think they will pay fair market value to 3M certified installers.
If so, prove me wrong 3M..lol. Provide discounted roll prices for any project used in your new "bright idea" that is printed from within your certified scotchprint clients. Then pay X% more for install projects from your new "bright idea". Nothing says I am not your competition, more than saying here look what I have done for you, increased your profits on jobs that you do for us! Instead, look for no discount for printing any of the projects and a lesser fee to install.

The end game in my eyes is that 3M could end up controlling a large share of the wrap market. They will then start to offer the wraps to even non-new vehicle owners through the dealerships. Don't think that if the dealerships are seeing a nice bonus check from the sales, they will not push to open it up even more to the public.

I guess it is, what it is... Gotta wait for the pricing, services, and other options to be announced. Then revamp any sales approach that will not be favored when compared to 3M's new bright idea.

While this does not have a major effect on my business right now, it could have a major effect, if our buyers groups continue to grow. Turn-Key wrap projects are part of our sales media kits for automotive dealerships within our buyers group. I just hope that 3M treats every sale as a single sale and not part of a larger group of individual buyers with the local dealerships.

Either way I will work 3M out of our sales media kits in the future based on what they do with the auto dealerships. Yes, 3M is a great product...but they are not the only one on the market that produce a great product!

The sign printing industry already has its hands full in the future b/c of technology and video display systems. It will not be long until you see your backlit display system sales drop off a cliff and never to be seen again compared to your sales from them the last 10 years.

 

[HulkSmash]

i don't have a problem with Merritt defending 3M. I have a problem with him trying to insult us saying we don't understand certain terms, and how his toys are bigger and he does more work blah blah blah.

that chit is uncalled for, and unprofessional, and he does not represent his company well by any means doing that.
IT has nothing to do with the subject AT HAND.

 

[tyzero]

Merritt:
You and your company probably will see no effect with this merger at all, but if you were a shop owner you may think very differently. I for one can say this statement holds true for most on this site.

I had an authorized 3M converter of materials send me this news. It came to my email directly forwarded from 3M. 3M seemed to boast of this new relationship with original wraps. The converter was totally stunned of this new alliance. They have a clause in their contract with 3M to prevent this type of thing in their line of work!

I had the privilege to do the very first wraps for original wraps/3M for ford motor company. When I was laying up the panels the engineers of ford asked why the material was not 3M? They were told it would be 3M and original sent avery for the install. :ROFLMAO:To make matters worse, they incorrectly made the prints. Parts were short, I couldn't cover the roof, and hood as promised. I then had to go back another day and install corrected 3M prints.

I also had applied a printed diecut graphic of the Detroit Redwings logo to a windstar. We both know no company had retained the copyrights for that logo, but you could see where this could end up going. Many cannot afford the 10K plus to purchase a sports logo. That is an added feature we can not offer!

I spoke to the ford group and was told the reason for working with original was the mini motoring site. They liked the customization of it. It was a well written web site that sold the deal to ford. Thats it.

If I had the chance I would sell to 3M also. I do not knock anyone for that. But 3M already is partners with many other graphic shops in the states. Vomela, Motorsports Designs, Harbor Graphics, etc.

 

[Custom_Grafx]

One thing I'm finding amusing is that this happens all the time in so many ways around us but you just aren't told about it.

You might hate a certain brand of cheese. Chances are, it is indirectly owned by the same company. Clothing brands, cars, drinks, plastics, glass, you name it. Hell, the tobacco companies do ALOT worse than this - to the ENTIRE population - and they kill people, and they don't get this much heat... They buy their chemicals from the same suppliers as nicotine therapy product manufacturers, but have a larger account so actually dictate to those companies. Did you know they 'persuaded' a certain patch company to down their marketing campaign because it was affecting their tobacco sales?

The difference here is, that 3M told you. Maybe there is such a thing as being too honest.

I do believe, that alot of this goes on in such a manner, utilising all available loopholes to avoid having to tell the 'people' the real facts.

It's just big business - good luck trying to stop it. If you think you have taught 3M a lesson in how to treat customers, you probably have... you've taught them to be more quiet about how they do this sort of thing in future lol.

Seriously, I may be a cynic, but that's how I see it - some things, you just can't stop. I've quoted Tony Montana before, and I'll quote him again. "first you get the money, then you get the power, then... you do what the hell you want".

 

[SqueeGee]

3M's execs. ultimately answer to Wall Street. Wall Street demands growth. I'm disappointed but not surprised.

I wonder how the hotshots over at Lowen feel about all of this.

 

[ForgeInc]

Agree with squeeGee. I can see both sides. I'll wait to hear all the details before completely writing off 3m, but it is a free market society after all. We'll see if this move alienates enough sign shops to affect their market share. I am sure this has been in the works for a looong time, all potential outcomes have been studied and probably market researched, and it's been guesstimated as a profitable move otherwise they wouldn't do it.

 

[MikeSTK]

Don't panic until they use the word "align", like "we want to align ourselves with the car companies".

Align is corporate speak for eliminate whatever link in the chain exists between them and a bigger market share.

Question is are the car companies going to lose money? Nope. Will 3M lose Money? Nope. Take a stab at where the "extra" revenue will come from....hmmm. Pretty simple stuff.

BUT at least you got a warning shot over your bow. Time to change the direction of the boat. OR like Fred says "do something common, uncommonly well".

 

[Patrick's Sign Compa]

i did one for them when it was original wraps. it wasnt worth the gas money to get to the site. and it took forever to get paid.

dont think they are going to funnel a ton of money to the installer cause it aint going to happen. this will make vehicle wrapping an $8 hour job while they reap a financial windfall.

we are done with them on a wholesale level. i will NEVER support my competition. as far as im concerned its no different than writing a check to the wrap shops in my market. stupid move for 3M and i think it has to do with the large ego that has formed on their shoulders.

the bad news for them, is their product is no longer superior by any means. technology has allowed their competition to do it better and cheaper.

 

[Tony McD]

Well crap....I don't like what they are doing either, and "was" in the process of
switching to 3m for vinyl and digital media. I'm not a big customer, so I doubt it will
matter much to 3m, however one of my suppliers has been trying to
convert me for a couple years, and they might care a little.

 

[skyhigh]

hey im that guy!!!! im that guy that opened two years ago, while you were an "established" sign shop.

i did it better, faster, longer, harder and more efficient that you!

i focused ALL of my attention on my business day and night while never losing faith and learning what you were doing wrong so i could do it right.

im that guy! and while you were complaining, my company went right to the top!

we walked into a flooded market, flooded it even more, and became the #1 wrap provider over shops that were doing it for over 10 years!

we innovated the advertising practices of our market which now, all of our competition mimics!

i guess we just got lucky

And while you were busy patting yourself on the back, Original Wraps & 3m came up with a better plan than you. I'm sure (if you had thought of it), you would have partnered up with them also, flipping your finger to all the "established shops" out there.

Now you can say......"Hey, I'm that guy".....one of those established shops left in the dust of someone that could do it better, longer, harder, smarter.

Welcome.


ps. I agree that 3m should not be playing both sides of the fence.

 

[houseofgrafix]

Can I get some cliffs?

 

[SqueeGee]

Can I get some cliffs?

3M bought a wrap business. They say they have good intentions but most posters have an issue with them being their vinyl supplier and potentially a competitor all at the same time.

Merritt says it's going to be like buttah. Prowraps and a few others are verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves.

 

[HulkSmash]

3M wants to have a conference call with my company on Wednesday. they would like to answer my questions and put any doubts i have to rest. Ill let you know how it goes, and stuff.

 

[MikeSTK]

No need to wait Colorado, here's how it will go:

3M: Good morning!
You: Hi.

3M: We are calling to clear up our intentions.
You: Great! What's the plan?

3M: Well we bought a base company to do fleet wraps. Naturally we know we can't put everything into place all at once so we will start here.
You: So where does that leave me?

3M: Oh you're in a great position! We want to hire you to print and install for us.
You: Really!? That sounds like a good deal. 3M will feed me work?

3M: Naturally, the design work is the most costly part of the project so we are willing to give you 50% of the project. Oh, and because of the volume we lowered the per vehicle cost by 30%. You understand....volume.
You: So I am going to do all the labor, eat misprints or install blunders, be responsible for the workmanship AND make 35% of what I used to?

3M: Yes but only until we get locations in all the key spots, then you'll make nothing. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. What can we ship out for you today to help fund our little venture?
You: ...........................*click*

There! No need to wait til Wednesday.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

Hi people! Not ignoring anyone. I want to be sure I reply properly without adding to the problem. Please let me get back to you on this topic shortly - today!

Betsy

 

[HulkSmash]

No need to wait Colorado, here's how it will go:

3M: Good morning!
You: Hi.

3M: We are calling to clear up our intentions.
You: Great! What's the plan?

3M: Well we bought a base company to do fleet wraps. Naturally we know we can't put everything into place all at once so we will start here.
You: So where does that leave me?

3M: Oh you're in a great position! We want to hire you to print and install for us.
You: Really!? That sounds like a good deal. 3M will feed me work?

3M: Naturally, the design work is the most costly part of the project so we are willing to give you 50% of the project. Oh, and because of the volume we lowered the per vehicle cost by 30%. You understand....volume.
You: So I am going to do all the labor, eat misprints or install blunders, be responsible for the workmanship AND make 35% of what I used to?

3M: Yes but only until we get locations in all the key spots, then you'll make nothing. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. What can we ship out for you today to help fund our little venture?
You: ...........................*click*

There! No need to wait til Wednesday.

oh man that made my night. hahahahahah.

I'll get the answers everyone is looking for..

 

[cdiesel]

So Adam, what'd they say?

 

[Jgentry]

So Adam, what'd they say?

They paid him not to talk about it... Of course.