Hey Betsy from 3M!

[RobbyMac]

I get the impression they are leveraging themselves by creating relationships with dealers and/or auto manufacturers. Obviously the customer gets the wrap 'cheap' being financed into the cost of the vehicle (nevermind they're paying on a wrap for 5 yrs with interest all up front). This is something our small shops could never do on such a large scale.
This means any existing relationships a shop may already have with dealers, may be lost to 3m in the near future.
And if anyone wants work out of it, be prepared to drop pricing so 3m can get the markup, now that they've situated themselves between you and the customer. You're own personal sales person which gets to dictate how much you will charge.
Bonus double whammy for 3m profit, you have to use their materials.

I don't even want to think about how 3m will select shops to do the work (or the schmoozing required to get their attention)

How is this good for us?

Maybe we should start offering leased wraps with financing available lol

They did something similar with their license plate printing business... sold a bunch of equipment and materials, almost like an r&d thing. Now they align themselves with states & offer printing themselves.

 

[andy]

I figured I would chime in. Who cares if they buy a shop. They are looking to offer graphics to auto dealers which I m sure will need to be dirt cheap. Half the time I hear all you guys say you are not going to work for that cheap..

Did they directly steal your client base? Would you of even gotten a sniff from the market they are going to target? They are also offering graphics that are Scotchprint and MCS certified of which I am certain nobody who has expressed concern in this post is qualified for or even fully understands what that is. So you were not getting that business anyways.

I am not one to brag about how many vehicles we wrap or how much vinyl we consume or purchase monthly but I am certain it is more than many distributors out there. We also use alot of 3620, 3552 and ij40. Aside from FLexcon, 3M is the only PSV we use and after 18 years doing wraps at a national level never saw a need to switch and still do not.

3M hands down has the best media solutions on the market today, the best warranties, the best marketing and are a great company to work with.

Anyone who thinks they are making a bold statement by switching and stop using 3M based on losing business you never had is not thinking long term or logically based on what the market offers and what your business really needs to stay ahead of the curve in the wrap world.

If your wrap business is that good who gives a crap what is going on down the block.
If you steer clear of the Politics and BS you can profit on your craft no matter what.

Scotchprint only works if you worship at the alter of 3m..... if you don't then it looks pretty silly.... a vinyl company cheekily awarding themselves a home made quality standard which isn't subjected to the same independent rigour as something like the TUV mark or Kite symbol..... Scotchprint is the rolls royce of 3m printing... because 3m do the printing and tell you it's the best... no bias or vested interests then.

I believe that Scotchprint is going to be a fundamental weapon used by 3m to squeeze out independent sign shops... using this made up, self appointed "quality" standard 3m will seek to brainwash corporate buyers into thinking that anyone or anything not Scotchprint compliant is inferior and not worth buying.... who controls Scotchprint... 3m. Who awards 3m certificates... 3m. Who will have a stranglehold on profitable corporate & fleet work.... 3m.

These fleet contracts and corporate jobs are how the small independent sign shops grow and advance the careers of the people employed there. The criteria for winning this kind of work should be; price, service & quality.... not a 3m badge.

3m is hands down the best vinyl according to some sign companies in the United States of America, some, many others think this is patently false. In other markets across the globe 3m are a bit player at most... better known for making sticky tape and post it notes. Millions of profitable sign shops across the planet live their lives having never bought or used a single square centimetre of 3m vinyl film.. including the sophisticated European market where poor quality simply doesn't wash.

 

[MikeSTK]

We have witnessed this line of thinking in another industry first hand. Certainly different levels of success are achieved depending on the market but as a whole it is problem plaqued.

Let's look at the "facts" as it were. 3M makes X a year within this industry. Now X only comprises lets say 10% of that particular market. 3M want to make a larger percentage, who wouldn't. Just like any shop owner out there you explore new products or services to increase sales.

The main problem lies in that comparison. As a shop owner you can control these new market areas directly. When a coporation attacks a new area they attempt to control it but the employee factor comes into play.

They have their problems and you have yours. They know how much money they are leaving on the table and they believe its free for the taking. What some corps seem to overlook is every level of any market comes with its own challenges. You have worked hard to overcome these difficulties and they will not solve them overnight - unless........they get you to do it for them.

That is the stage we are experiencing right now. If they could eliminate you and eat your area of profit they would do it in a heartbeat. Just like any shop owner, if you can produce some item and stop ordering it from a supplier you will, as long as its profitable.

 

[ProWraps]

Merritt Graphics: I figured I would chime in. Who cares if they buy a shop.

I care because they are a manufacturer of products I use to make a living. Their products are wholesaled to me. Now I have to compete with them directly.

They are looking to offer graphics to auto dealers which I m sure will need to be dirt cheap. Half the time I hear all you guys say you are not going to work for that cheap..



Did they directly steal your client base?

Yes. I have alreadly lost jobs to customers that are financing their wraps with their purchase of their vehicles.

Would you of even gotten a sniff from the market they are going to target? They are also offering graphics that are Scotchprint and MCS certified of which I am certain nobody who has expressed concern in this post is qualified for or even fully understands what that is. So you were not getting that business anyways.

Wrong. Contrary to your ego, some of us DO understand what that is, and dont run profitable businesses because we are stupid.

I am not one to brag about how many vehicles we wrap or how much vinyl we consume or purchase monthly but I am certain it is more than many distributors out there.

Now THAT is funny. You call my printers toys, and tell me and others how big you and your company are all the time.

We also use alot of 3620, 3552 and ij40. Aside from FLexcon, 3M is the only PSV we use and after 18 years doing wraps at a national level never saw a need to switch and still do not.

Awesome. And Im sure you wont damage that relationship on this forum.

3M hands down has the best media solutions on the market today, the best warranties, the best marketing and are a great company to work with.

This statement shows you are no where in the chain on printing/installing. I have posted pics to the contrary. They are great at oil drops, bugs, and other contaminates in our media. Again, a statement made to not damage the relationship of your huge company with 3M.

Anyone who thinks they are making a bold statement by switching and stop using 3M based on losing business you never had is not thinking long term or logically based on what the market offers and what your business really needs to stay ahead of the curve in the wrap world.

Bold statement? How about a moral statement? You are so out of touch with us its rediculous. And I understand. You are here to sell your company. Nothing more, nothing less.

If your wrap business is that good who gives a crap what is going on down the block.
If you steer clear of the Politics and BS you can profit on your craft no matter what.

You should give a crap. Because of you, your politics and your BS I have chose not to use the company you represent on this forum for many wholesale jobs. Instead I have sent them to your competitor on this site. You are still profiting in your craft, but just a bit less


-And Besty, I and others eagerly await the response your marketing firm skillfully crafts for 3M.

 

[Gypsy]

Merritt Graphics: I figured I would chime in. Who cares if they buy a shop.

I care because they are a manufacturer of products I use to make a living. Their products are wholesaled to me. Now I have to compete with them directly.

They are looking to offer graphics to auto dealers which I m sure will need to be dirt cheap. Half the time I hear all you guys say you are not going to work for that cheap..



Did they directly steal your client base?

Yes. I have alreadly lost jobs to customers that are financing their wraps with their purchase of their vehicles.

Would you of even gotten a sniff from the market they are going to target? They are also offering graphics that are Scotchprint and MCS certified of which I am certain nobody who has expressed concern in this post is qualified for or even fully understands what that is. So you were not getting that business anyways.

Wrong. Contrary to your ego, some of us DO understand what that is, and dont run profitable businesses because we are stupid.

I am not one to brag about how many vehicles we wrap or how much vinyl we consume or purchase monthly but I am certain it is more than many distributors out there.

Now THAT is funny. You call my printers toys, and tell me and others how big you and your company are all the time.

We also use alot of 3620, 3552 and ij40. Aside from FLexcon, 3M is the only PSV we use and after 18 years doing wraps at a national level never saw a need to switch and still do not.

Awesome. And Im sure you wont damage that relationship on this forum.

3M hands down has the best media solutions on the market today, the best warranties, the best marketing and are a great company to work with.

This statement shows you are no where in the chain on printing/installing. I have posted pics to the contrary. They are great at oil drops, bugs, and other contaminates in our media. Again, a statement made to not damage the relationship of your huge company with 3M.

Anyone who thinks they are making a bold statement by switching and stop using 3M based on losing business you never had is not thinking long term or logically based on what the market offers and what your business really needs to stay ahead of the curve in the wrap world.

Bold statement? How about a moral statement? You are so out of touch with us its rediculous. And I understand. You are here to sell your company. Nothing more, nothing less.

If your wrap business is that good who gives a crap what is going on down the block.
If you steer clear of the Politics and BS you can profit on your craft no matter what.

You should give a crap. Because of you, your politics and your BS I have chose not to use the company you represent on this forum for many wholesale jobs. Instead I have sent them to your competitor on this site. You are still profiting in your craft, but just a bit less


-And Besty, I and others eagerly await the response your marketing firm skillfully crafts for 3M.

 

[HulkSmash]

Let Merritt do what he does. He's always up talking how superior his business is to everyone else's. Oh wait it's not his. It was actually started before his mother was born.

Typical for someone who doesnt have to pay for anything to add to a business, or even have to worry if something goes wrong cause at the end of the day he signs the back of the pay checks and not the front.

What does you printing more, and having better stuff have ANYTHING to do with the issues we're having with 3M. Seriously I'd like to know

Yeah you're company is so good. It took them 2 weeks to return my call with a quote. By that time i had already had the job done and installed - guess who did it for me? Not your company. I used the people who returned my calls - yeah and i think they're your competitors on this site.

 

[andy]

We have witnessed this line of thinking in another industry first hand. Certainly different levels of success are achieved depending on the market but as a whole it is problem plaqued.

Let's look at the "facts" as it were. 3M makes X a year within this industry. Now X only comprises lets say 10% of that particular market. 3M want to make a larger percentage, who wouldn't. Just like any shop owner out there you explore new products or services to increase sales.

The main problem lies in that comparison. As a shop owner you can control these new market areas directly. When a coporation attacks a new area they attempt to control it but the employee factor comes into play.

They have their problems and you have yours. They know how much money they are leaving on the table and they believe its free for the taking. What some corps seem to overlook is every level of any market comes with its own challenges. You have worked hard to overcome these difficulties and they will not solve them overnight - unless........they get you to do it for them.

That is the stage we are experiencing right now. If they could eliminate you and eat your area of profit they would do it in a heartbeat. Just like any shop owner, if you can produce some item and stop ordering it from a supplier you will, as long as its profitable.

Large corporations have forgotten the wisdom of Henry Ford... if you want to sell your chit to the US consumer you need to make sure the US consumer is given the means to earn a decent living.

3m have obviously run the numbers in the usual myopic fashion favoured by corporates... destroying the wider wrap industry won't have an impact on 3m.. the loss in raw material sales will be countered by the upswing in retail income.

but....

All those bankrupt sign shops used to employ people and used to buy products & services from other companies who also employed people. These people used to eat out at Mc Donalds or buy Mobile Phones & Ipads... now they're all unemployed and skint they don't buy anything.

McDonalds cancel their 3m vehicle wrap campaign because of falling sales. The mobile phone company won't be renewing their fleet graphics program because their income and customer numbers have fallen off a cliff.

This isn't silly fantasy land.... it's basic economic theory....a theory Henry Ford recognised 100 years ago.

 

[fmg]

3m is hands down the best vinyl according to some sign companies in the United States of America, some, many others think this is patently false. In other markets across the globe 3m are a bit player at most... better known for making sticky tape and post it notes. Millions of profitable sign shops across the planet live their lives having never bought or used a single square centimetre of 3m vinyl film.. including the sophisticated European market where poor quality simply doesn't wash.

 

[Jack Knight1979]

I'm scheduled to wrap a sprinter in the next week or so. Looks like I'll be going back to Oracal for this one.

3m can suck it.

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

Let Merritt do what he does. He's always up talking how superior his business is to everyone else's. Oh wait it's not his. It was actually started before his mother was born.

Typical for someone who doesnt have to pay for anything to add to a business, or even have to worry if something goes wrong cause at the end of the day he signs the back of the pay checks and not the front.

What does you printing more, and having better stuff have ANYTHING to do with the issues we're having with 3M. Seriously I'd like to know

Yeah you're company is so good. It took them 2 weeks to return my call with a quote. By that time i had already had the job done and installed - guess who did it for me? Not your company. I used the people who returned my calls - yeah and i think they're your competitors on this site.

You know nothing about my role with the company I work for nor what I am responsible for.

I have never once stated a "we are better than you position" Just factual info from experience and a long history in the industry. Yes I am very proud of being able to work for a growing company with a great staff and talent. Also very fortunate to be able to have the right production machines and infrastructure around me something I have worked very hard for in the 10 years I have been with the company.

As far as the 3M situation here yes I support them and there products. We have used them for many years and the have supported us along the way.

Yes Pro Wraps I am here to sell my services and company and also have meet some super cool people along the way as well as offering as I see alot of good insight and help on the market and industry from my eyes. If you feel I have an ego well not much I can say there. It is not ego again it is statments based on experience and facts. Yes I do work for a big company and am quite happy to. Yes I call certain machines toys again in my world they are for applications and should also be for some of you guys who claim you produce the volume you do???

I will keep using 3M and do not have any interest in changing. They make great product and everyone knows the name. How many RFQ's do you see that specifically spec. 3M 180 w/8518/19 lam? Not Oracal,Avery, MActac... Yes 3M that's what they want 3M nothing else. Not using 3M or trying to sell non specified products is how you lose the business.

I also do not think you will ever come across them in your market that will impact your business. Unless of course you sit back and let it.

As far as financing anyone can offer 3M is not doing financing the Fleet Leasing company is or Dealerships banks are. This has been going on for many many years with wraps. Best way to get this business is to contact the fleet leasing companies directly and sell them. We did this with Enterprise Fleet Leasing 3 years ago and we now do wraps for them that are rolled into clients lease with the box trucks. They have about 30 different companies that we work with through them done about 20-30 trucks per company over the past 3 years. Not a bad gig..The gift that keeps on giving.

I would also suggest for any company to explore diversification of product offerings this would also help avoid any negative impact from one service or product.

If you graphics business is over 30% of one specific product offering you are risking losing big if the bottom falls out of that certain product line and the impact can kill a business.

If it makes you also feel better to state you do not use us as a wholesaler because of my opinions so be it. Not much I can do there. We have plenty of accounts from this site who profit day in and day out from our offerings.

Keep in mind it is always a 2 way street. Never claimed to be perfect but always keep it honest...

 

[HulkSmash]

You know nothing about my role with the company I work for nor what I am responsible for.

I have never once stated a "we are better than you position" Just factual info from experience and a long history in the industry. Yes I am very proud of being able to work for a growing company with a great staff and talent. Also very fortunate to be able to have the right production machines and infrastructure around me something I have worked very hard for in the 10 years I have been with the company.

As far as the 3M situation here yes I support them and there products. We have used them for many years and the have supported us along the way.

Yes Pro Wraps I am here to sell my services and company and also have meet some super cool people along the way as well as offering as I see alot of good insight and help on the market and industry from my eyes. If you feel I have an ego well not much I can say there. It is not ego again it is statments based on experience and facts. Yes I do work for a big company and am quite happy to. Yes I call certain machines toys again in my world they are for applications and should also be for some of you guys who claim you produce the volume you do???

I will keep using 3M and do not have any interest in changing. They make great product and everyone knows the name. How many RFQ's do you see that specifically spec. 3M 180 w/8518/19 lam? Not Oracal,Avery, MActac... Yes 3M that's what they want 3M nothing else. Not using 3M or trying to sell non specified products is how you lose the business.

I also do not think you will ever come across them in your market that will impact your business. Unless of course you sit back and let it.

As far as financing anyone can offer 3M is not doing financing the Fleet Leasing company is or Dealerships banks are. This has been going on for many many years with wraps. Best way to get this business is to contact the fleet leasing companies directly and sell them. We did this with Enterprise Fleet Leasing 3 years ago and we now do wraps for them that are rolled into clients lease with the box trucks. They have about 30 different companies that we work with through them done about 20-30 trucks per company over the past 3 years. Not a bad gig..The gift that keeps on giving.

I would also suggest for any company to explore diversification of product offerings this would also help avoid any negative impact from one service or product.

If you graphics business is over 30% of one specific product offering you are risking losing big if the bottom falls out of that certain product line and the impact can kill a business.

If it makes you also feel better to state you do not use us as a wholesaler because of my opinions so be it. Not much I can do there. We have plenty of accounts from this site who profit day in and day out from our offerings.

Keep in mind it is always a 2 way street. Never claimed to be perfect but always keep it honest...

What does you printing more, and having better stuff have ANYTHING to do with the issues we're having with 3M. Seriously I'd like to know

You going to answer that?

 

[signmeup]

You know nothing about my role with the company I work for nor what I am responsible for.

I think that would be an interesting read if you had the time.

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

What does you printing more, and having better stuff have ANYTHING to do with the issues we're having with 3M. Seriously I'd like to know

You going to answer that?

Not sure where it is stated printing more and having production capabilities has anything to do with the so called 3M issues. Nor did I even bring any such thing up in my post.

We have a great relationship with 3M. They have great products and we have profited for years from them. We will NOT drop them because they are buying a shop. Hell I never even heard of Original Wraps. How big of a threat are they? None especially to the good qualified shops of which I know the 2 who took issue with my comments are. I have heard of them (even prior to there Signs 101 involvement) but funny never Original Wraps.

I as stated in the original post could care less what shop they bought and in now way are bothered by it. I also stated that qualified shops should not care either and it is not a wise idea to just drop them off your product offerings. Not if you are currently making money off them and paying the same price for the product from your supplier.

I would of thought more would of taken action against 3M when they partnered with Lowen than this especially with no realtime history with what they intend to do.

We will continue to support and advocate 3M products and that is our stance on what has gone down.

Sorry my post ruffled some feathers but sometimes that really gets us thinking.

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

I think that would be an interesting read if you had the time.

Here is a C&P from my Linkedin profile

Operations Manager Big Color Division
Merritt Graphics

Printing industry

August 2001 – Present (9 years 10 months)

Responsible for all day to day operations for the Merritt Big Color Division. Which include managing a 3 shift 22 member production team of Print Operators, Prepress Technicians, Finishing Technicians and Installation Crews.

Key focus on Workflow, Vendor Relationship, Production Technology, Project Management of National contracts and Overall Business development including P&L and all financial performance.


Hope that sheds some light.

 

[HulkSmash]

Here is a C&P from my Linkedin profile

Operations Manager Big Color Division
Merritt Graphics

Printing industry

August 2001 – Present (9 years 10 months)

Responsible for all day to day operations for the Merritt Big Color Division. Which include managing a 3 shift 22 member production team of Print Operators, Prepress Technicians, Finishing Technicians and Installation Crews.

Key focus on Workflow, Vendor Relationship, Production Technology, Project Management of National contracts and Overall Business development including P&L and all financial performance.


Hope that sheds some light.

he was being sarcastic. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

he was being sarcastic. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Sarcasm or not I have nothing to hide. I did not read it that way nor do I care.

Not sure why you want to continue and bash my factual comments.

I also have never come out and boasted we are the biggest baddest company as for we are not. I have shared big projects and machines we have gotten not to prove anything other than I am proud of the accomplishment and feel some can appreciate it. Trust me there are dozens and dozens of much larger shops than Merritt even the biggest baddest one right near Denver that at the flick of a switch can dominate all digital large and grand format. Look what share they own in Billboard printing.

I am proud of what we do and how we do it...

If and When 3M raises all the prices and takes large market share away from your shop at a greater degree than your average competition then perhaps a lynching may begin. However that time is not now nor has any factual info indicating that has been presented.

Can anyone say they have not been successful and profitable thus far using 3M products?

 

[signmeup]

he was being sarcastic. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Sarcasm? Whatever do you mean?

 

[fmg]

I recently requested a quote from Meritt.
Not only did they get the quote back to me within 24 hrs they also were very competitive with their figures.Can't really ask more than that.
Nothing wrong with 3M in my opinion they deliver an outstanding product!

 

[Flame]

I recently requested a quote from Meritt.
Not only did they get the quote back to me within 24 hrs they also were very competitive with their figures.Can't really ask more than that.
Nothing wrong with 3M in my opinion they deliver an outstanding product!

Discussion really isn't about Merrit. So keeping on topic of 3M...will you keep this stance when you bid on a small fleet of 5 plumbing van wraps, and then lose that job to 3M?

 

[fmg]

Discussion really isn't about Merrit. So keeping on topic of 3M...will you keep this stance when you bid on a small fleet of 5 plumbing van wraps, and then lose that job to 3M?

I bet ya I wouldn't lose the job to 3M son!